Is this "Pushback"?
Got my Onewheel a few days ago and I'm LOVING it!
I quickly got the hang of it and really got to know the feel of accelerating/decelerating, but yesterday I experienced something that freaked me out while in Classic mode...
When accelerating to a moderate speed, sometimes the back end would slowly drop but I wouldn't lose speed. Thinking this is odd and inconsistent, I try to straighten the board forward but find I would pick up speed. When leaning back again, the board wouldn't decelerate.
That's where I get freaked out because the rear of the board is close to skidding the ground and I'm going pretty fast with no way to slow down. Thankfully after a few attempts of leaning back, it feels like something kicks in, and I'm able to decelerate.
Anyone experience this? Is this "pushback"?
After the 3rd time this occurred, I tried to be super conscious of what was happening... Here's a more detailed description:
As the back end starts dropping on its own, without me slowing, I find myself putting weight on the back foot to balance myself... so my front leg is starting to bend and my rear leg is straight. No deceleration. By this point I realize I'm in a bad stance... I need to straighten my front leg and truly lean back so my center of gravity is behind the wheel, but by this time I'm going pretty fast and the back end is close to skidding the ground. When I try to straighten my front leg the board goes even faster.
I'm wondering if this is "pushback" and if switching to Extreme mode solves this.
Does this sound normal?
You are experiencing what's call ‘pushback’. Pushback is a speed modulation feature mostly noticeable in Classic Shaping that lifts the nose of the board in order to slow the rider down. Pushback kicks in at 8-10 mph (depending on what shaping you’re riding) and prevents the rider from leaning forward more and thus accelerating. If you'd like to ride without such strong pushback you can switch your board over to Extreme Shaping which will allow you to ride without experiencing pushback until you reach higher speeds. This though, is only recommended once you are feeling good enough about reaching higher speeds.
Some riders have the tendency to 'fight' the pushback and counter it by leaning forward to try to stay at level as you seem to be describing. Because you are actually leaning forward to counter the sensation of the board pushing you back, the board will no decelerate. That is why it seems like you can't slow down. If you lean back with the pushback you will slow down. The board is not controlled by the angle it's riding at with respect to ground but by where the center of mass of the rider is at with respect to the board itself.
Give it a try not fighting the board when it's pushing you back and lean your body backwards and you will notice the board will break on your command. Hope this helps you out @Wayne
@Julian Good to know! Thanks! I'll switch to Extreme mode to get rid of the pushback.
Yeah I'm surprised some people really struggle with pushback way more than others. Not only is the board pushing back but the algorithm is waiting to feel you lean back a bit to slow down before it relents and let's the nose down.
People having difficulty are either outright fighting it or at best managing it which causes even more pushback until the nose is way up and the tail way down which would be difficult and dangerous to ride since your leverage to lean back at that point is greatly decreased as you are doing everything to just stay on the board. I guess they figure this is still safer than allowing the rider to speed up and go nose down especially if they can't even manage to slow down with pushback.
Listen to your board. When you feel pushback relent and lean back slightly so it stops, then proceed with your ride. When I'm pushing the speed in extreme I'll get pushback over and over again as apart of the ride. no big deal when you understand what it is doing and what your response needs to be.
Sometimes I think having ridden in Extreme 1.0 (with no top speed pushback) was a good learning experience. Having gotten used to feeling for the slight wobble and knowing to easy back, the pushback in 2.0 feels like the board is screaming "slow down or you're going to crash!"
For my part, I hope FM keeps the pushback settings the same. I will make one request for the next firmware update - moar powa!!!! :sunglasses:
I just did my first 30 min on the OW, and i must say the pushback reduces my manouverability, as in, steering is harder when the board pushes you back.
I'll need to find a IOS-device to try the extreme mode!
@Polle I believe there's a way to do a button push sequence to change the mode to extreme for you Android users.
@veryous, thanks, I also read it here somewhere, but I already switched to extreme with a friend's Iphone... The app looks nice, gonna look for a cheap iphone/ipod online...
@polle Another user (Franky) found iphone 4s's, which will support the up coming ios9 for someone else on ebay used for $50.
Now that I know what pushback is, it's very easy for me to "listen" to what the board is telling me and lean back. I switched to extreme mode and haven't had any problems adjusting my weight when the pushback kicks in.
@lynnpreston I understand the pushback is for safety, but I'm curious what the board would feel like with no pushback at all, where it completely follows your commands even if it means nosediving. Basically, I'm curious how it would feel not having to fight the pushback if I want to go faster.
If it were possible to set when the pushback kicks in, I think I would like to try it kicking in at a faster speed. I don't mind that it kicks in when I'm accelerating too fast... it's warning me that I might nose dive. But when I'm carving or gradually accelerating and start to feel the pushback, that's when I wish I could see what it feels like off, or play with the threshold in the settings. Just to try it out.
Wayne, have you ever had road rash? :smiley: haha
@Wayne I think the reason pushback starts when it does is to give the best chances of not nosediving.
The closer you are to max speed, the less ability the board has to push you back. They say max speed is 15mph but pushback in extreme starts at 13mph. I'm guessing after 13mph, the odds of successful pushback start dramatically going down the faster you go.
I would be fine if there was a way to turn pushback off entirely but I'm sure they think too many people would get hurt. Especially after reading of people complaining how current pushback is not fool proof. Maybe can release an Easter egg within the app to do it...
@Wayne - not having pushback was nerve-racking, especially when trying to just cover ground quickly. While I can't say for sure, I think you would try it without pushback and then realize you like having it there. It's so easy to get velocitized and not realized you're really going 13 mph, then stomp on the nose and . . .
I rode extreme for the first time today because I was experiencing pushback in classic and it really scares me to brake and have the board not react to it. Now that I riding extreme I find it better because I really don't like to go fast anyway and being in extreme means no pushback for me ever as long as I don't get close to the max speed. So I guess my new opinion is that for the way that I ride, extreme seems safer. Does anybody know what happens when you are experiencing pushback and a car or another bike pulls in front of you? How do you stop quickly when the board is speeding up like that? Thoughts?
Regardless, from now on I'm riding extreme 24/7!
@MichaelW, sounds like you just need more time riding to get the feel for it. Take it easy to avoid pushback and always back off when you get pushback until you are more comfortable. The more you ride, the better you will do and the more comfortable you will feel.
@lynnpreston I think you're right. Tonight I did a speed test by using my wife's iPhone to record my iPhone with the onewheel app, and discovered I was actually going faster than I originally thought.
Here's the contraption I made so I could look at the road cracks instead of my iPhone:
These were my findings:
12.83 mph- Slight Pushback kicking in at, wanted more speed
13.00 mph- Full Pushback, wanted more speed
15.00 mph- Fighting Pushback, I like this speed, want just a tiny bit more speed
16.70 mph- Pushback gone, No wobbles but getting little scary because of motor noise but fun!
17.43 mph- Pushback gone, Want to slow down now because scared I'm going to nose plant
After speed testing I'm actually glad there's pushback afterall. I still do wonder what it would feel like if it kicked in at 14-15 mph instead of 13 mph.
Did I mention I'm loving my Onewheel ;)
That's just crazy! I would be shitting my pants while riding :anguished:
That's just crazy! I would be shitting my pants while riding :anguished:
I'm so glad someone else said what I was thinking.
That shoebox mechanism is ingenious @Wayne, But it also highlights a pretty conspicuous absence: why can't the one wheel application record your ride speed statistics for you and then show it afterwards in a little graph? Right now I'm using third-party applications meant for bicycling but it's silly to have to do that when the one wheel is always tracking the speed anyway. @Julian, whaddya say? :)
Took a big dive yesterday. Got pretty bruised up. Trying to figure out what happened. I've been getting pretty good and comfortable on the OW and finally switched to Extreme. Was cruising around for a couple miles, thought I had the hang of this thing when, BAM it seems like the thing just stopped. Felt as if the nose of the board just angled right into the ground and down I went. Had 50% battery left, probably at or near max speed, don't remember any pushback. It seems like a glitch. If not, the only logical thing I could think of was that my foot came off the pad but I was cruising doing large sweeping turns. Not enough to release the pad. Has anyone else experienced a sudden stop, glitch or whatever that caused an endo? Lost confidence in the boards electronics now.
The spill looks a lot like the one at the end of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT8uX0Ek08c . He's probably in classic and new at it but what did he do wrong? Look like his board just nose dives right into the dirt too.
That's a really interesting find, @Jens: From the video, I have no idea why that spill happened. It looks like the board just stopped balancing...