anti overspeed nosedive ideas



  • hello onewheelers,

    I had my first novedive in 2 years yesterday, accelerating at high speed in a steet in the center of Paris with some 50 km/h traffic.

    I was starting to think it would not happen to me, the myth of the rogue wave.

    I remember seying the nose diving in slow motion. I guess it is an adrenaline survival thing that makes the brain accelerate to take some critical decisions.

    I was lucky there was no car directly behind me, as I was violently ejected.
    I am glad it is winter, so my several layers of clothes reduced my bruises (nothing broken).

    A very nice garbage man helped me get the board which continued its run some 10m under a parked truck, and he made sure I was ok.
    I found the carbon fender some 10 m behind. Apparently this part was the smarter one as it decided to detach, and had no collision.
    And me in the middle.

    there are lots of very instructive nosedive testimonials and suggestions on the forum, I tried to read as many, I am sorry I might have skipped some of them so maybe the points bellow have already been discussed :

    1- is there a way the firmware could detect the balance will stop 1 or 2 seconds in advance, to trigger a high db alarm ? Either with a speaker on the board, or through the app ?

    2- is there a way to practice the nosedive at lower speeds, meaning to manualy disengage the active balance while moving, to learn how to manually balance ? I read it is the secret of high speed. My 41 years old body will not tolerate too many failed attemps.

    3- is there a benefit, instead of a front bumber, to have a large cylindrical safety roll, wich would avoid the crash and let the beast ridable.

    I am riding extreme, with helmet but no other protections. That day tire pressure was little over 2 bar. I usually inflate at 1.9 bar but my tire has a leakage wich makes it flat in a week time. With cold temperatures reducing the range I prefered to have some more pressure.

    Still love it :) but will ride slower from now.

    Best,

    Arnaud



  • @arnlej Thanks for sharing and glad to hear your body is reasonably ok after the dive. Did you use the OneWheelbuddy app while you were riding? Did it tell you that your fat had been moved off the sensor?
    I am just curious. The app has been telling me several times my foot had been removed from the sensor for more than 5 seconds. But thus far that has never led to a nosedive..



  • All happens so fast in a nose dive,
    here one of mine in a video, I have edited it with a count down to elaborate the steps: the Buddy App Alarms is recorded as well, way too slow /!\ that is my point!

    In here I am attacking a slope forgetting to put elevated mode, way too much confidence.
    The bill: just bruises and a soar right Trapeze muscle (trad.?).

    Good point are: heavy duty gloves really helped here, all flat no stones nor curb to hit, a helmet is mandatory...

    https://youtu.be/Wr9ILakPYeg

    Bad point: time of'alarm from sensor to bluetooth to iPhone I have enough time to roll and be back on my feet.... an alarms means below 10ms alarm.

    Only built HW in can reach this.

    Happy to share this 9 seconds, sound is terrific, gopro frame was destroyed in the process.

    Bye
    Arnaud



  • While it is possible to recover from a nose dive, even at higher speeds, avoiding them is the way to go. The #1 best way in my opinion to avoid nose dives is to adjust the stance such that the feet are closer to the tire. The more you weigh, the more important this becomes. At 213# I used to ride with a wide stance- rear foot pretty far back on the footpad, and front foot more forward but still on the sensors. Nosedives were a frequent occurrence. Moving my rear foot closer to the tire just an inch or 2 made a huge difference, and even lends itself to higher speeds. I haven't nosedived for a while since riding this way.



  • @arnlej said in anti nosedive ideas:

    I am riding extreme, with helmet but no other protections.

    Why? I don't understand the aversion to pads.



  • thanks all for your reactions!

    @SaturnOne
    I did not have the Buddy app running (cellphone out of battery), but i guess it would have said I was little over 35 km/h since this is the usual max speed i got from the app (not gps correcteed), and i had the feeling i was going over. not sure though.

    but I am pretty sure my front feet was not removed, i paid a lot of attention to that since the begining, I carried a lot of things in the past at lower speeds (even a small tree in Paris,, 2 meters above my head, that was funny :) with no right to mistake so i think i really learnt to put the pressure on the front pad. I guess this is the actual problem with high speed, where the pressure should be 50/50.

    Since i was aggresively accelerating my balance was front, and I did not have the reflex to adjust it but was a spectator of my crash.

    @Rno
    Instructive video, I hope you did not suffer too much, sorry for your Gopro!
    You seem to be up the second after you crash, good sign. I was not, i really had to seat a almost a minute.
    I was not going up, pretty horizontal road so I had more ms to contemplate the dive (I crashed in the street of the Hopital Hotel Dieu Emmergency admissions, Ile de la Cité, I guess you know the place:). Perfect asphalt.
    I agree the alarm should be buit in the board to avoid lag.

    I realize with this crash that I will not ride again at high speeds in the bike lanes, which are not large enough. It seems all the parts (board, fender, me) were deported on the right. I am verry happy there were no cars parked at this place and enought room for me to slide.

    @groovyruvy
    thanks for the advice.
    I ride with my feet in the center of the pads to make sure the sensor will catch them.

    Actually I think my crash is more due to power limitations due to high speed, with motor giving up to drive the balance.

    I wonder if the firmware is actually knowing that it gives up to balance, or if the motor is just stopping to balance without the firmware knowing it, due to power limitations.

    I dont know the implementation of a self balancing algorithm, but I guess there is a variable to drive the acceleration and another one to drive the balance.
    there should be a way to calculate the power and trigger an alarm.

    @HansBoobie
    you're right, i know it is stupid : i find it too long to put the pads on and off, plus I think the brain is more difficult to fix.
    Anyway for summer as soon as i will have less clothes i will put the pads on !

    I just had an idea of a free-roll training set up, to safely replicate the max speed and nose dive, and learn to deal with it (manual balance):
    What about using a high speed running treadmill ?
    the commercial ones seems to go to max 25 km/h, but maybe it is possible to build one or access one.
    With the pilot well secured (harness to the roof ?), the board attached to not being ejected at high speed, a camera.

    But i wonder what is the mechanic of the manual balance at high speed. Surely the airflow pressuring the boddy is part of the response, so my training setup would not work...



  • Regarding the speed and acceleration, it probably will not happen anymore with the OW+, with the hypercore engine...



  • Hello OW family members,

    I had my first nose Dive 4 days before Christmas and let me tell you I am still healing from the crash!
    I was riding at night in a trailer park for old people where the have very smooth asphalt! I did not have the Buddy App yet. All I know, I was going full speed carving and saw a bump in the road and did not have enough time to react and the next minute on the ground in so much pain I could not walk! My cousin had to help me in the house!
    I fractured my hip, elbow and smashed my tendon running next to my knee all the way to my hip!
    Really not sure what happened. I think when I hit the bump my foot came off the sensor and the rest is history!
    No pads or helmet! I will be wearing at the very least a front elbow pad instill I heal all the way.
    I had to get hip pads shorts so I could go snowboarding for now.
    #1 lesson for me not to ride full speed in the dark where you have never ridden before! Or perhaps never full speed in the dark period!
    Im riding a little slower for now, its been almost 4 weeks now I'm still in pain! Never going to stop riding!!!

    BE Safe everybody live to ride another day!
    Sincerely,
    Jeff AKA Mighty Whitey



  • Hey Everyone... I really recommend these... Can wear them under normal clothes and no one knows you are wearing pads... I have them on all day sometimes after forgetting that i am wearing them.... They have saved my knees at least twice now... still ended up with a very sore knee but I'm sure would have been many times worse without..

    link text g-form.com

    If I'm shredding.. these and gloves are a must..



  • @RodSlide For sure the OW+ pushes the limit, but I don't see how a more powerfull engine could solve the problem: overspeed nosedive will still happen, at higher speeds, probably with more damages.
    Unless i am missing a point. Otherwise I buy it :)

    i think the overspeed nosedive is a conceptual issue that has to be addressed.

    I am very curious about the skilled riders who manage to manually balance at high speed when they feel the nosedive.
    how do they learn to do that ? Is it usefull to train to balance with the motor off ?
    or does the manual balance rely on inertia of our own body at high speed ?

    I wish i could practice on a track with a 100m long cable 3m from the ground with a security harness !



  • @groovyruvy said in anti nosedive ideas:

    While it is possible to recover from a nose dive, even at higher speeds, avoiding them is the way to go. The #1 best way in my opinion to avoid nose dives is to adjust the stance such that the feet are closer to the tire. The more you weigh, the more important this becomes. At 213# I used to ride with a wide stance- rear foot pretty far back on the footpad, and front foot more forward but still on the sensors. Nosedives were a frequent occurrence. Moving my rear foot closer to the tire just an inch or 2 made a huge difference, and even lends itself to higher speeds. I haven't nosedived for a while since riding this way.

    And wear flat shoes.

    I learned that lesson, lol.



  • @arnlej I thought you weren't going faster... but you right, when we ride, difficult to don't try to push the limits... So...
    I have too one nosedive... jumping from a sidewalk in extreme mode... stupid idea ! And of course no protections or helmet... stupid too... and now... I am still riding extreme... with no helmet and protections but maybe I have to think about it ! Last night, under the rain, it was really slippery... For the moment I haven't find a way to avoid it except riding slower.



  • @RodSlide I just updated the title with "overspeed" sorry it wasnt clear from the begining



  • maybe try enjoying slalom and corners instead of speed!? ;)



  • @arnlej

    get some practice flying in front of the board and running it off. it is easy to do even at full speed.

    running it off is to floating as swimming is to boating.



  • @mrb It's easy to run it out at full speed when you're not expecting it?! Come on, man.



  • @dcosmos Bro I'm with you. There are some times when I'm able to run it out, but there are other times when I'm leaning so far forward and pushing the board to the max, that I get tossed forward leading with my upper body, almost in a diving position. No way to run it out, which is why I always wear pads- they've spared me some brutal wounds and injuries many times over.



  • @dcosmos Totally. When you hit an unexpected bump (not even going full speed) and it causes you to lose your balance forward, and suddenly find yourself catapulted off the front, you realize running it out isn't going to happen. I found this out the hard way recently.

    Trying to prepare for the unexpected is helpful, attempting to run out a fall might work, but I think learning to roll properly is most important: https://youtu.be/Bdr2j5oD2dU?t=153

    There are a lot of cases where even people who are wearing pads will break a wrist or an arm because they don't know how to fall properly.



  • Yep, this guy is a master at falling.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIxeoehr4ps



  • @sonny123 Exactly. He's wearing full pads, but he still rolls. Most people put their hands out and brace themselves for a fall, and end up dislocating a shoulder or falling on their hip. Wrist guards have proven to be dangerous when you don't fall properly, because they can snap your wrist if you land with your full body weight on your hands.

    Watch any pro street-skating video and none of those guys even wear helmets. They fall constantly from crazy heights at crazy speeds over crazy terrain, but they've learned to fall, and it saves them (almost) every time. They still get hurt sometimes, and sprain a wrist or an ankle, or break a bone, but generally it's in a situation that wearing pads wasn't going to help them anyway.


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