Why did the OneWheel suddenly brake at 23 mph? Result = Nosedive
Hi Tech Support,
Can someone please explain to me why my OneWheel would suddenly brake at 23 mph in Mission mode? I was experiencing pushback, naturally at 15.5 mph or so, and once I hit 23 mph, the pushback seemed to suddenly disappear and there was a sudden unexpected brake 'feature' that happened too fast to react to. Any help would be great. Thank you!
Tech support doesn't monitor these boards, but honestly, it sounds like you experienced what most aggressive riders eventually experience.
When you run out of acceleration, and ANYthing happens that requires more power (Literally a pebble is enough) the board can't accelerate, and it just slaps the nose into the pavement, which SEEMS like an instant braking.
Eating shit at those speeds hurts too, I've done it a few times now, and hope to never do it again.
@OW-Miami these kinds of posts make me contemplate canceling my plus order. The limitations the Onewheel has concerned me!. It seems as though a rider that gets to comfortable to aggressive and starts to push the boundaries gets rewarded with a big fat yard sale! I don't understand why once the max speed is reached why it( The Onewheel )can't just go into coast mode? Why won't future motion address these issues?
That has to be your call.. A lifetime of disrespecting toys like hotrods and motorcycles under my belt, and this, no doubt, was the first toy to teach me the meaning of respect.
Respect the boards limits, or pay. It's really that simple - push the limits and you WILL bleed.
BTW: The issue is physics, not design. The ONLY thing keeping the nose up is the board's ability to accelerate - if you are pushing the limits that safety margin gets razor thin. Not a design flaw, just physics.
With that being said - I have zero regrets and will continue to ride hard, just hard within the limits. They advertised 19/20MPH. You CAN do that, but you're asking for it. Keep it down to 16-17 and you're pretty much as safe as you'd hope to be (It's still a freaking one-wheeled electric high-speed skateboard after all, we can't expect to be 100% safe on it, EVER.)
It's nice to hear that you don't think it's a design flaw. After 30 years of hurling and my body off kickers snowboarding I'm really looking forward to getting my feet on this thing.
Maybe it's not a fair comparison but after 200+ miles on my boosted board it has never sent me flying for trying to go to fast.
Did the V.1 have these issues or just the plus?
I think the v1 doesn't have this glitch. The plus is more of an automatic transmission where the v1 is like a manual. With v1 it's more obvious what is going on with the engine
@MackaDelic It's just like anything else. You can ride it within your limits and the boundaries of the board with no issues. However there are always people who want to push the boundaries whether that be their own personal or that or the device. I'd say 99% of the time falls etc are due to rider error and not problems with the board or that Future Motion should "address." The board tells you to slow down through pushback but riders choose to try to push the board pasts its limits. There is not such thing or possibility of a "coast mode."
This is the best analogy I can think of to describe what is happening with the physics of a Onewheel or segway etc. Imagine you are standing upright with your feet together and you lean your whole body so far forward that you are going to fall over. The only way to keep yourself from falling is to step forward, and if you keep leaning further and further forward you basically have to run to keep your legs underneath you. This is essentially what is going on with the OW. It has to speed up as you lean forward to keep the board underneath you and keep you from falling. I assume everyone has had this experience where you are running falling forward trying to get your legs underneath you and you eventually fall (especially if your feet hit a little rock or something) . This is what happens with the Onewheel. There is just a point where the tire cannot move fast enough to keep the board underneath you and keep you upright. However the OW tries to tell you where this point is through the pushback, but some like to try to push the boundaries.
Hope this helps and sorry if it doesn't make any sense.
@goodblake-eskate that made perfect sense and thank you for taking the time to explain your point of view! I really appreciate everybody's input!
@goodblake-eskate all This may be true but if there is no pushback and, at 15.9mph, the board simply dives the way a skateboard would if its front truck magically disappeared... as happened to me just a week ago, then what? I'm currently awaiting the shipping slip to send my new baby back to revisit her makers. Hoping for the best! Now if only my leg would get to feeling better...
@thetwilightsown Yeah I have posted about my experiences with this type of no pushback nosedives when i first got the board quite a bit. I assume this is relatively new board?
Below is the text from another post of mine about this....
*So I had trouble with extreme complete nose dives where you hit the ground before you even realize what is happening kind. Here is copy from another thread describing my early experience with my OneWheel +
"When I first got my Plus, there was a noticeable little click noise I used to hear coming from the motor while riding. Also I never felt any pushback in the beginning when I could hear this noise. I had a few nose dives and never felt any pushback prior. Then I put it in Sequoia mode as I was determined to feel this "pushback" that people had referenced and hadn't felt on my OW. Initially, I didn't feel anything in Sequoia either and suddenly out of no where pushback started. I had been going the same speeds prior in the same modes but never felt the pushback. I am convinced that riding hard in Sequoia finally adjusted something in the motor that was out of align preventing pushback. I switched it to Mission after this and suddenly started feeling pushback there too. Since this day, I have not noticed the little click I used to hear coming from the motor, and I have not had any nose dives like I had the first few weeks I had it. I have had nosedives, but they seem much less severe like the motor was still trying to hold me up versus just complete stop and dump off the front nosedives. Again i know nothing about the internals of the OneWheel so this theory could be completely wrong. Initially, I thought it was user error(as I am sure many of you do / still do), but now that I have 500+ miles, I feel that there was something slightly out of whack when I first got my plus."
Has your buddy noticed pushback on his plus in any of the modes? I'm curious if he tried to force pushback in Sequoia if it would then start pushing back in Mission as it did for me.
Good luck to him as not feeling pushback and then nosedives that come with it are no fun to the point where I considered giving up the OneWheel due to unpredictable face plant nosedives that were quite unsettling.*
Now my Plus works as expected, but I was considering sending mine back at first too. Good luck
Thanks guys \../ (-_-) \../
@MackaDelic "Coast" mode would be a nose drop because you're leaning in to accelerate.
It's important to remember the work the onewheel does when considering its limit for speed. It is constantly working to balance/accelerate according to the rider's position. If that work rate gets so high that it doesn't have enough power to support increased acceleration/balance (such as what might happen at high velocity) then the onewheel cannot effectively work to compensate for the position of the rider anymore.
In this way, if you are leaning forward at maxed potential, then the onewheel does not have enough power to work to accelerate/balance anymore than it already does and since you are leaning forward, you fall that direction as the onewheel doesn't have the power to stop you.
I suspect it is similar to the feeling of stepping on the edge of a cliff with your front foot. The further you lean on it, the more weight the cliff bares until the point where it cannot bare anymore and it just gives way.
I wonder though if they could design a ride mode, or option in the app, that would keep some reserve energy to kick in at max work loads to assist with a more gradual deceleration from the max work load. So rather than just give way like a broken cliff edge, it might be a gentler drop like a partner moving toward you on a teeter totter. It would still be dangerous but perhaps easier to recover from in the moment.
@isforshooting there is definitely a difference between stepping off a cliff (or something similar) and the nose dive I encountered. I liken it more to riding a skateboard or bike when suddenly the front truck/wheel just disappears. It's that sudden and that shocking.
This was a gradual uphill grade on a bike path. My buddy was about 10m ahead of me on his OW original (on which he's now crossed the 500 mile mark) riding the exact same path. I was carving and taking it easy. I did accelerate but we're not talking about anything sudden - I was just blissfully enjoying my ride, sped up expecting to feel pushback if I went too fast and suddenly my board stopped right where it was and I knew I was in trouble.
My board makes a clicking noise as was mentioned above. Not sure what that is, just sure that my right knee is still tender from hyperextending during my attempted walk out and... I'll never not wear full pads. Saved my tail big time.
Board's on its way back to FM, so we'll see what we see in a few days...
Only thing I can say is I had "unexpected" nosedives and a "defective" board when i first received my V1. I soon found out that it was not the board that was the issue but the way i was riding it and not listening to the signs it was giving me. Since i figured that out about a year ago I have had exactly 0 nosedives that were not from my own doing. If you talk to any other person on here who has had their board for a little while they will tell you the same thing. 99.9% of nosedives are rider error. I am not saying that there have not been a few defective boards but they are very rare. You really just have to put things into perspective and realize you are going at close to 20mph on a balance board. When you push it past its capabilities there is only one possible outcome, it is not a boosted board and it does not have any extra wheels to catch your fall. I can almost guarantee that if you respect/learn the boards limits you will never have an unexpected nosedive again.
@ahxe45 speaks wise words
Could nose dives occur because of a bad foot sensor? My onewheel sometimes will send messages about me going xx miles and did not detect me on the sensor. Either you had an awesomely rad jump or your foot sensor may be faulty.
@timmyz If you carve aggressively, it is normal that your heel or toe comes of the sensor for a second.
Most newbies here think they have faulty sensors as they nosedive, but only a very small percentage actually had a problem with the board, 99% is user-caused...
@timmyz that warning mainly happens if you don't have enough pressure on one of the sensors. It most likely does not mean you have a faulty sensor but that you lifted your foot when you were carving.
@ahxe45 I understand the temptation to take a condescending tone with a user who writes in, but my suggestion is that you pause a moment and ask yourself why you would want to do that when you don't really know anything but your own experience.
That being said, I just got my + back from FM. after speaking to their support staff, explaining my experience and relaying the circumstances they suggested I send it in. This was the email I received:
And when I asked what the diagnosis was, this:
Oddly, "user error" is nowhere in their reply but thanks anyway!
This is a machine. It's not a person who is your friend, it's a machine and sometimes machines, what was it, "malfunction."
Be smart. Wear gear. Don't do stupid things then cry about it later but... if you can honestly assess a crash and give no explanation, call somebody. Turns out, the folks at Future Motion know more about your board than the average user. Peace.