Upgrade Onewheel Plus to an XR?
Do you think it will be possible to upgrade a Onewheel Plus to an XR?
Highly unlikely. Unless FM managed to squeeze MORE LFP batteries into that small frame, they would have had to use a higher energy density battery chemistry (vs what they are using, Lithium Iron Phosphate or LFP). If they used a higher energy density battery chemistry (NMC/NCA/LCO), the average cell voltage would be higher, which means all the charge management system would be completely different.
Even if they did use a larger LFP battery, the pack would still either have a larger voltage or higher capacity. Since the motor hasn't changed, they would have used a higher capacity pack. A high capacity LFP pack would need to be squeezed into other places in the frame. The Plus probably does not have space to accommodate a larger pack. The XR might.
I seriously doubt they stuck with LFP and put exra packs in different places of the frame, they probably went with a higher energy chemistry to keep the pack on one side of the board. If they did that, then upgrading a plus to an XR would be very difficult.
@corlux - I tend to agree with you that an upgrade is unlikely - that said, look at the pictures of the + and the XR.
On the XR, you can see what look like black float plates (they appear to be one piece with the bumpers), indicating to me that instead of the battery/power components ending short of the bottom edge of the frame (as on the +, where the component covers are flush with the bottom edge of the frame) on the XR they perhaps extend down a little farther, roughly flush with the bottom of the frame, necessitating these now-external plates to cover them.
If that's so, and the motor and frame remain the same, then maybe an upgrade is possible?
I'm already looking into a higher capacity battery from Samsung. Same LiFePO4 battery, same voltage, higher capacity. Seems the XR is the same setup with higher capacity batteries and a slightly larger battery box.
I see no reason why a upgrade isn't possible, however this is FM we are talking about, they would rather sell new than a 'upgrade' for the +.
Once the specs on the XR are released, I'll know what the upgrade consists of, my theory: just higher capacity batteries that Samsung released earlier this year. BTW, those newer batteries are only about $5 each!
They wont even sell + foot pads to the peeps with v1's!
@skypilot The reports are saying that the XR has more torque (https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/onewheel-xr-future-motion/) so I'm assuming that you won't be able to simply upgrade.
Thats just due to a bigger/better battery which will minimize voltage sag under load.
Exactly. More mAH capacity will allow the motor to pull more amps from the exact same voltage. Of course, they could have upgraded the voltage also, and then the wheel hub motor would have a different kV rating. Higher voltage = less amps and less power wasted as heat.
@cascadewheeler I think it's a different battery through, not LiPO. NMC, which likely means different tech to draw power, but I'm no electrician.
the new bat is NMC...very upset I bought my plus a month ago now
@ventoriffic the speed control does not care what kind of battery it gets it's power from . As long as the bms is in the battery and not the control board, and the new battery is the same or closer voltage wise... i think there is a faint hope of upgrading. Tho probably cheaper to just sell the plus and buy an xr. There is no voodoo going on inside this thing... the electronics are very similar to rc stuff.
I think it is a great time for the original OW board owners to upgrade their boards. Can skip the OneWheel ND and go for the OneWheel XR. Would miss the 20 minute charge though.. Finally a board that has a range that is not embarrassing to mention; compared to current day mobility devices.
*ND is the Nose Dive model, also referred to as OneWheel Plus.
Been thinking about this today. I just can't believe they would shaft all the people that got new one wheels for xmas by releasing a new board 2 weeks later. That's pretty rude if those peeps can't upgrade their brand new boards. I'd be pissed. I'm sure they considered the blowback from these customers?? Or maybe they don't care and just wanted to offload all the +s they could during the holidays as who would buy one now?
@ventoriffic Hey Ventoriffic. I just want to re-direct you a bit, its going to be a semi long post.
The current battery used in a OW is a Lithium Iron Phospate oxide (Li-Fe-PO4, or LFP), these are basically the safest batteries around. A Li-Po is a Lithium Polymer Battery which uses a semi-solid gel like substance for electrolytic magic.
The NMC as mentioned, is a so called Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt battery, which achieves a higher energy density than LFP, but has certain drawbacks aswell. (expect shorter battery lifecycles with NMC)
A quick comparison of LFP vs NMC
Pros with a LFP :
Very Stable (even at full charge)
Flat Voltage throughout use ( Very low voltage drop as you deplete the battery)
High Charge/Discharge rates (lots of amps!!)
Little risk of thermal runaway (No Kaboom)
Supreme Longevity ( going to last you forever!)
Higher discharge rate when not in use (compared to other batteries)
Lower Energy Density
Lower voltage (3.2-3.6 V)
Pros with NMC:
Higher Energy Density ( More milage, less bulk) Basically the selling point for the XR
Higher Voltage ( More Power!(ish) 4-4.2 ish)
A subsequent consequence of higher voltage is the ability to drive faster, as electric motor RPM limiter is
Voltage. Of course if you cant give it the torque (amps) it doesnt matter.
Worse longevity (expect about half of LFP life)
Higher risk for Thermal Runway ( not as bad as phone batteries tho)
Longer Charge times ( Cannot be charged as fast)
Higher production cost ( which is why you pay more)
There seems to be a lot of sacrifices with this model, for the big advantage of the increased range. Its going to be interesting to see how FM deals with this new chemistry, but expect a different beast. One that, maybe doesnt grow as old as the O+.
I also suspect the accelerations are going to differ, and charging times are going to go up. (if the battery capacity is double the O+, i expect the charging time to be 4 times as much, due to battery limitations)
I also do want to point out that most EV's are leaning toward NMC as an intersection point in safety, longevity, and power.
@drn3rd: awesome comparison - thanks for your effort!
@cascadewheeler I spoke to a girl (forgot to get her name) on the Support line yesterday, and she stated that A). + will not be upgradeable to XR's, the XR battery size is several mm thicker and will not fit in the + frame (I had hoped that those black plates on the bottom of the XR, meant that XR frame was the same size as the +, and those were just the new battery/power covers, but according to her they are just rail protection), and B.) that there were no plans that she was aware of to help out anyone who got the + recently but would have preferred to get the XR (I got my + August 9 2017, so exactly 5 months too soon - I would have paid the extra for more range.)
It'd be nice if FM offered prior OW customers a discount on newer models to encourage upgrades and smooth these kinds of ruffled feathers. Even something like $50 or $75 or $100 off, even if mostly symbolic, would feel like at least a customer loyalty acknowledgement.
@drn3rd I do apologise for some repetition in my previous post. To somehow try and redeem myself from shame, I can only apologise for the horrid mistakes I have committed.