Onewheel Plus XR Charge Time? Charger compatibility?
@Future-Motion, can you comment on the charge time for the Onewheel XR? The plus has a quoted charge time of 20 minutes, but a fully drained battery takes ~40 min to charge.
What about the XR? Is it still a 20 min "average" charge time, with a 40 min full charge?
Is the charger for the XR compatible with the charger for the plus?
Thank you very much!
I've found an topic on reddit where someone was talking about a charging time from 1h50minutes. Hope he's wrong because double range and four times longer charging? Hope this was a wrong information
From all of the research i can tell NMC cells have roughly the same charge rate as LFP but who knows how much exactly capacity has increased. Would be nice if they'd tell us.
@at_onewheeler they may be completely correct in the time, but I feel like that person is just extrapolating based on prior specs. 40 min for 5-7 mile, XR is 2.5 - 3x range and some change. 40 min x 3 = 120 min or 2 hours.
If the XR has a different chemistry, then it will also have a different charger. Can anyone confirm which chemistry they used in the XR? NMC would certainly make sense.
@corlux articles have said NMC
Its possible that it could be not much more than an hour if its NMC and according to this site partial and "random" charges are fine and not damaging.
Rapid Charge: 3h
Fast Charge: 1h
Its seems the battery industry has clear definitions of what a rapid charge is and what a fast charge is (and also an ultra-fast charge)
I dont actually know anything about batteries though
Also NMC cells should be 4.20v as opposed to our LFP cells at 3.65v
Onewheel confirmed on instagram that the XR will use a new charger and charge time is 110 minutes. + chargers will not be compatible with the XR. All the details are in the comments on instagram.
I guess we'll see how accurate that time is. If its as accurate as the +'s 20 minutes then we can probably expect 2.5hr for 18mi.
If the real world time to charge the original + for 6 miles is 40 minutes then you could charge the original + for 22.5 mi in the same time as 1 charge for the XR (if you assume the real world time for the XR is 150 minutes). If the XR is actually 110 minutes and the original + is still more like 40 minutes then they are pretty much even in amount of miles / time charged.
I asked FM. Here is a response:
@Future-Motion / Website said:
Thanks for reaching out and glad to hear you are interested in the Onewheel+XR! We are >so excited and proud of this new addition to the Onewheel Family. The Onewheel+XR >takes 110 minutes to completely recharge. Depending on how much you have rode your >battery down, the charge time will vary.
That being said, the Onewheel+ XR goes incredibly far. Often too far for our test riders, >who had to take breaks while attempting to drain a full charge. Range varies based on >many factors including rider weight, tire pressure, terrain, ect. but Onewheel+ XR generally >gets 12-18 miles per charge.
This opens the door for endless possibilities, big adventures, seamless commutes and no >more worries about if you’ll make it there and back. No more worries about making it back >home. If you order before midnight tonight, you will be one of our Platinum Tier Members >and reap some sweet benefits. Hope you can get an order in soon!
I feel like 110 minutes will be significantly improved in the next gen. I may skip this version and just wait.
Also, FM is really kinda shady when it comes to their charging time specs on their website. For the the original and the plus, they quoted a 20 minute charge time, but the actual charge time was 42 minutes, from a fully drained battery. Even though their website claimed a "20 min full recharge" for the plus in 20 minutes. Here is a link to a way back machine showing the quoted specs: https://web.archive.org/web/20170128033521/https://onewheel.com/products/onewheel-plus-silver-edition
I asked FM about the charge time for the original, which had the same charge specs as the plus, and this was their response.
@Future-Motion u / Website said:
I very much appreciate your dedication to this issue and have forwarded this to my >supervisors. Please let me know if you need any further assistance.
On Thu, 17 Nov at 9:35 AM , Justin Lenoff email@example.com wrote:
Keep in mind that that you are advertising the Onewheel falsely, which can open you up to >litigation. Your product was clearly advertised as having a 20 minute FULL charge time, >and it has a 42 minute charge time. And it was described in a way that, according to >technical terms, is blatantly false. The key term on your website is again, a “full” charge. >More information about false advertising here:
Your product was described in a way that made it seem better than the competition, >namely a boosted board. A 20 minute charge is important to me and one of the main >reasons I purchased your product. To get confirmation that the quoted charge time is flat >out wrong does not make me feel very good about Future Motion as a company, although I >do enjoy the Onewheel.
Please get with somebody who has rank in your company and update your website to >more accurately describe this product.
In my opinion, it would probably be acceptable to say that you have a “full” charge in 40 >minutes, instead of 42. But not 20. That is clearly a lie.
On Nov 16, 2016, at 18:17, Future Motion Inc firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
We apologize for the frustrations. There are a lot of variables that assist the amount of >time a board's battery takes to charge. It is possible allowing the board to charge for an >extended amount of time (24-48 hours) will balance the battery's cells and create a faster >charge time.
Either way I am passing this feedback up the ranks and we will work to make our >advertising as accurate as possible.
All the best,
On Tue, 15 Nov at 4:29 PM , Justin Lenoff email@example.com wrote:
Yes, then your website should say that. Why doesn’t it? What your website says is >misleading. The phrase, “20 minute to FULL recharge” is very, very different from what >you’re telling me now.
If it said “20 minute average charge time” that would be acceptable.
Why does your website claim a FULL charge in 20 minutes? Full charge is 0% - 100%.
On Nov 15, 2016, at 18:27, Future Motion Inc firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
No problem! I contacted our head engineer and they confirmed this is still within normal >manufacturing specs. Since the charger takes 20 min to charge from 20-80%, 40 min is >what takes for it to go through a second phase of charging.
On Mon, 14 Nov at 4:03 PM , Justin Lenoff email@example.com wrote:
Sorry to open this up again. I followed all your steps and the board is now behaving better, >with one exception. It takes 42 minutes to charge, not 20 minutes.
Your website says, and I quote, “20 minute full recharge.” Full recharge means the board is >completely discharged, and charged. My board only charges to 50% in 20 minutes.
Is something wrong with my board? If not, is something wrong with the information you >are providing on your website?
On Nov 3, 2016, at 17:08, Future Motion Inc firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Hi Justin Lenoff,
It sounds like our customer support guru has resolved your inquiry. If you have any >questions or would like to follow up feel free to reply to this note and the ticket will re-open.
If you're satisfied with the resolution there's no need to reply and the ticket will >automatically be close after 48hours.
Future Motion IncSupport Team
Not really a BIG deal, but they were definitely peddling misleading specs on their website regarding charge time for the plus. Even with the XR, they quote a "fast charge." 110 min is simply NOT fast.
You can search the forum and find other cases where others were also showing charge times for the plus that were double what was advertised on their website.
I still love my board, but maybe itll be better to wait for an actual gen 2. They just need to use higher wattage chargers and they can get the charge time on the XR to at most 60 minutes, if not 40 like the plus.
@corlux I agree.
Advertisement should be something along the lines
20 minutes from 0 to 80%
40 minutes to 100%
funny how they just blatantly ignored the false advertisement comment.
All in all, FM isnt the best when it comes to PR, and communication. (They hit home with a product that made them grow way larger than they imagined). Hopefully this is a temporary phase in their life as a company.
REAL 20 min charge time would certainly reduce the number of times you could charge the battery and have it keep the full charge as spec’d (ie, number of cycles of charging where the battery still provides most of it’s rated capacity).
The slower you charge a battery like this the longer it lasts. Once you charge past 1C (accelerated charging), you can reduce the life of the battery. So there’s a trade off...I would love a “real”, “full” 20 min charge also, but I’d rather not replace the battery sooner than it’s rated cycles indicate. That could be $500 or more for a new battery. See what 18 or 20 Panasonic high capacity 18650 cells cost - it’s about that much.
Most LFP can actually handle a 3C (20 min) charge. ~16 min in constant current, ~4 min in constant voltage. Cycle life is still fine, but energy density is low, depending on how they tune the electrodes. Also, this is really more about the accuracy of FM statements, as they did claim a FULL charge on the website. Full means from 0% state of charge to 100% state of charge (SOC) If they had said something like "average charge is 20 minutes" that would have been more accurate.
Just makes me cringe a little wondering what to expect with the XR. Especially since, as of this writing, their main claim is that the XR has a FAST charge, when the charge is really 110 freaking minutes.
What happens when customers buy the XR expecting FAST to mean 20 minutes, instead of 110 minutes?
Pretty freaking shady...
That's it. I've convinced myself. Order canceled. Lol.
That could be $500 or more for a new battery. See what 18 or 20 Panasonic high capacity 18650 cells cost - it’s about that much.
$8 apiece for the original cells (provided you buy 1000 ― 62 packs).
That's $128 for a 16 cells battery pack. :)
Great find! Those are the original batteries? Are we sure it isn’t a 2P configuration though (ie, 32 batteries)? Also, those are only 2500 Mah and the ones I saw on amazon were 3400-3500 Mah.
At any rate, I’ve used A123 batteries in my electric rc planes (not for high power stuff, but for receiver batteries) and they are great.
But I do also agree that the charge statements by FM are misleading. I’ve been going around telling people “it only takes 20 mins to charge” like an idiot.
If it is a 2 hour charge time, that would be lame. Might just stick with the plus in that case. The thing that still blows my mind is that I'm all charged up from 0% in about 25 minutes.
Seen this morning that they did use NMC cell batteries.
I got my OW+ end December 2017. First i was like Nooooo new one XR, than find out that will take 110min (still not proved yet) vs 20-40min charge. I am good with my OW+ with my car inverted charger on rd.
Noticed: OW website are skipping timing charge for XR, only say "Fast Charge" https://onewheel.com/products/onewheel-xr.
as long as FM got a little more honest with us about this 110mins (@Julian has backed up the charging statement in the XR release thread)..
If you have an XR and charge it for about 37 mins it should give you about 5 miles in range, yes? (Ballparking a 15 mi total) 110÷3=36.6
With the +, 5 miles is close to what that charge time would get you (depending on weight, terrain, psi, temp, towing a skateboarder, etc)
40 min gets you 6mi and that's ok
<40 min × 3 gets you 17 and that oughtta be ok too but nooOoo.
Sounds fair to me
It's like having two whole additional batteries for your + that you don't have to swap or carry. Neat