Why does the board have to lock up @ max speed?

  • @SeaP90d said in Why does the board have to lock up @ max speed?:

    The only thing that makes logical sense is they gotta be working on the lock up problem, but its something with the hardware like a cut-off of some kind with the DC motor that's supplied by others and thus can't just be tweaked with a few lines of code. It really seems to be the main thing holding these boards back from mass acceptance and unequivocal endorsement by current riders, I suspect its only a matter of time before we see a motor upgrade that definitively resolves this issue.

    I agree only lunatics and adrenaline junkies (like myself) may sign off on riding a board that mysteriously cuts out and leaves an uncontrollable wide open window for major injury or death beyond the already inherent dangers that exist. It would be alot more comforting knowing that as long as I don't do A,B or C I won't have to deal with an unexpected cut out.

  • Ok the devil is in the details, I had a similar fall exactly as you explained and this is the cause and solution below.

    You said "I had to lean forward to regain my balance, and in doing so, quickly pegged the speed on the OW causing it to stop and send me tumbling forward."

    So what happened was you pushed through the push back breaking the top speed of 12mph you will notice the nose is elevated near this point... once this happens the nose of the board will change behavior as you move past the push back point.

    The change in behavior is that the nose will start dipping as you increase speed towards 15 mph and beyond. What happened was your weight was on the nose while it was elevated near 12 mph... then you made it past the push back still with your weight on the nose combined with "beyond push back nose dip" instantly made you nose dive your board in less than a second. Its not a cut out, its a crash.

    This happened to me exactly two times and has never happened again because I expect it at high speeds. I still notice the slight nose dip tho.

    The solution is wait for the nose dip and and shift your weight off of it as you push past the push back point. You can go even faster, the board's nose will dip a little but you compensate for it.

    Like i said that exact thing happened to me, i know exactly what youre talking about. Its the nose dip after the push back phase. Watch where your weight is during that phase.

    Like I said, i really ride this thing as hard as i can several times a day. Its not a lock-up or a cut out... its a crash.

  • @Seekwence
    Were you in extreme or classic?

  • @wheeler extreme

  • @Seekwence I think you hit the nail on the head. The only times the motor has cut out on me suddenly were when I angled my foot too far off a sensor. Since I figured out how not to do that, all of my endos have been caused by digging in the front end either through turning too aggressively or accelerating beyond the limit. The OneWheel does have a mechanism for cutting off power to the motor gradually, it's the extreme push back into tail slide you get when it's time to charge or when you're over-volting it on a downhill.

  • @bmtka The way people react to pushback is actually what @Seekwence was describing. Pushback is actually caused by the board accelerating -- which shifts your weight back on the board -- so that when it does start to slowly decelerate, you don't go flying off the front via insta-nosedive.

    He's saying that if you try to lean forward to get the nose down while pushback is happening, what happens is you actually speed up, then nosedive and crash. What you should do is just sit tight and wait for the board to auto-decelerate and level out on its own.

    It is possible to push through pushback if you're daring, but it takes experience and knowing how to level the board without putting too much weight on the front.

  • @thegreck Ohhhhh...... That.

    One thing about OW is that it gives you way too much confidence in the beginning, but it takes many weeks to actually learn all of the important nuances and quirks and how to deal with them as your riding skill develops. I spent a lot of time in the yard learning and testing its limits on a friendly crash surface. Not fighting that quick acceleration pushback was checked off the list pretty early.

    I really think @Future-Motion should consider including a little physics tutorial about how the device works to keep the rider upright and the limitations of this mechanism as optional supplemental reading material.

  • @bmtka Agree 1,000%.

  • @bmtka I completely agree as well.

  • @bmtka Well, it might help, and certainly wouldn't hurt.

    I had my nose dive a week into it. It seemed like OW locked on me and I kissed the ground.
    After all, I had gone up that hill several times, why now?
    Until I analyzed things.

    It was the only time I wore high Timberland boots. (dumb move)
    I had experienced pushback earlier and remembered what I read here about launches after pushbacks.
    So I played it safe and slowed down. Come that hill, out of no where, I find myself diving into pavement in split second. It's like you never know what hit you.
    Luckily I was going slow, but still no fun dive.

    Pushback doesn't only happen at high speed.
    It can happen at mid speed and slow speed.
    It's OW's way of telling you you're doing something wrong.
    When you don't fix it, it launches you.

    It's all about maintaining that center of gravity and that takes time to learn.

    That's why it's best for newbs to really take their time with the learning curve.

  • Thank you all for your thoughts, experiences and advise... sorry it took so long for me to reply in the thread I created. Work has been hectic.

    @Seekwence I'm sure you're probably right. It certainly felt like a hard stop but it all happened so fast that I can't say for sure it wasn't the nose digging and based on your similar experience and a sort of logical deconstruction of the crash... it makes perfect sense.

    I haven't gone for a long ride since... my wrist/thumb are still pretty sore and I don't want to push it. My wrist guards did arrive though so when I am feeling good, I'll hop back on and make sure I have those equipped.

    Again, thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. The discussion has been pretty enlightening. Have an awesome say all!

  • I wasn't going to say anything, but I can't hold my tongue any longer. So here it is.... My brother, father, and girlfriend all have newer boards than the two I own, and theirs have firmware 3056 and my boards have 3034. There is a HUGE difference in the amount of push back, and top speed between the two different types of firmware. 3056 starts pushing back at 12.5mph, and allows you to push past it. Once you've gone past the push back it rides level and lets you achieve a speed a little more than 15mph before it suddenly dumps you on your face. All three of their boards do this, but the 3034 firmware lets me ride all the way to 15mph and gives solid pushback and doesn't let me push past it. This is on extreme mode by the way. My brother hates riding with me cause I'm all casual and loving it around 14mph, and he's on the edge of eating shit and stressed out. I feel like FM needs to look more into this problem, and if nothing else revert back to the 3034 firmware.

  • @J-Glide Yeah, I thought I noticed a change in when pushback happens after the update. I'd like it to be closer to max speed, but I feel it pretty much as soon as I start riding now. Like you, I prefer riding at around that 14mph zone, so I feel like I'm always fighting it.

  • @J-Glide Interesting. I have only been on 3056 (got mine in February) and now that you mention it, it does seem like a bit of a struggle to maintain consistent speed on the upper end. I can definitely go above 15mph, though, without eating it. I'm going to have to do some experiments today. Really wish @Future-Motion would allow for data logging in the app, or at least release an API so that people smarter than me could build something to leverage all this lost data into something useful.

    EDIT: And it turns out there that a third-party app with logging capabilities already exists, for Android users, at least. @kwatts made pOWtools and it's basically everything I ever wanted out of the official app, including battery notifications! Wow!

  • @bmtka Thanks for the info on the app!

  • @J-Glide I had literally just learned about it from a post in another thread by @Tartopom. I'm having a hard time getting the .csv files to open correctly, there might be a formatting issue, not sure. I'm just glad to have access to all this information now. The disco lights feature is neat, too.

  • Hmm... Maybe @kwatts could add firmware transfer (upload AND download) into his app. That way we could back up our current firmware to a file, and if we don't like FM's new firmware, we could revert back to a previous version. If someone gets a new board with new firmware and they don't like it, they could grab an older version from someone else. We could keep an archive of each version, and decide for ourselves which we prefer.

  • @bmtka Battery notification with vibrations was my idea lol ;) It was really something that I missed on the official app, so I kindly asked @kwatts to implement it :)

  • @Tartopom Nice! I shot him an email about some UI text sizing issues on my phone and issues with opening the log files,and suggested Android Wear support if it's not overly difficult. It wasn't super clear from his reply but it sounds like that might be in the works?

  • @bmtka Hiya -- yep just fixed those issues you mentioned, well, except the android watch support, still waiting to get one that I think is good enough :). I'll release it after testing this weekend.

    @Tartopom if I didn't think you before thanks again for your recommends, hopefully you like the new UI...

    @badcheese and @J-Glide interesting around the firmware changes, and the pushback behavior. I've found some interfaces to the OW (it uses BLE, bluetooth low energy) that I suspect are used for firmware upgrades. I just don't know the commands, or how it works, well enough to start messing with it. And this is lessons learned, I've bricked quite a few devices throughout my reverse engineering years ;)

    If I had an app that actually contained the firmware and used BLE to do it, or documentation on how to do it from OW (Ideal!) then I'd give it a shot.

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