Thrown off after nosedive with no pushback warning (nose dive, nose-dive)
@tomtnt when I watch your dump, it looks like you were trying to accelerate at the same time your board went through a slight depression in the sand causing the nose to dive further.
I have had a couple of similar experiences to the ones others have reported:
classic mode, moderate speed (~5mph), comfortably cruising/carving and then....straight over the falls, trying to run it out, meet the pavement, quick shoulder roll, assess the damage.
I have done enough board sports for long enough to know when I am pushing it too hard (yep, got a few of those boo boo's too) and when something else is going on. The frustrating part is that its hard to recreate this.
But, I am working on a theory that I would love feedback on if you have had this issue. Also, I think this idea would explain why this tends to be more of a noob issue. This has only happened to me when traveling at a slow-ish speed (one that a noob would tend to be going). I think what is happening is that, at that speed, hitting a rock, bump, etc is creating just enough deceleration to tip me forward off of the board but that there is not enough forward momentum for the OWs gyros/motor to kick in and accelerate out of it. I think this would explain why as you progress in riding, this tends not to happen (because we tend to ride with just a little more speed). Others agree/disagree?
PS, before you jump on the "it will get better with practice" bandwagon, I am a comfortable OW rider on many terrains (pavement, fire road, single track, beach, etc) and surface types (mud, wet leaves, hard pack, gravel, wet pavement, etc)...I get it.
Franky last edited by Franky
@ted you mention speed, but too low of speed actually can cause the board to shut off easier since at low speed both sensors need to be pressed to keep the board active while at faster speeds you can lean on one sensor or the other and the board will stay activated.
I think the fact that the board is mechanical complicates this issue. My wife tried to snowboard but gave up after many many falls. Since snowboards are not mechanical of course the rider is at fault even though the difference between success and failure can be the difference between leaning a little this way vs not and you smack on the ground. Similarly I've found that ow is highly susceptible to falling if you lean forward too much or maybe shift your feet too much. If you are the person doing this it's hard to understand what you are doing wrong but the fact that it is mechanical opens the opportunity to assume the board could be at fault when if it wasn't you would know it was you. The only evidence I have to prove this issue comes down to experience is that the vast majority of riders have experienced being thrown and not understanding why but after much experience it rarely happens even with the same board. What changed? If you are an experienced ow rider and it is still happening to you then I suggest you contact support because maybe you have some rare defective board that shuts down while the sensors are pressed and without the nose touching down.
If you look at my post history you see I'm not trying to tow some company line. I've just been riding for 7-8 months and this is what I think I've learned.
@Franky I think we are saying the same thing. My point is that this issue is not a mechanical problem but a result of the limits of the torque/acceleration of the OW at low speeds (not a sensor issue which would be triggered only at very slow speeds: <0.5mph).
Both sensors only need to be activated below 0.5 mph which is way below the speed at which I have experienced going over the front. However, when I have pitched forward, I can find a specific reason for the deceleration (rock, bump, etc.). I think that as I hit those, my weight pitched forward (Newton' first law) just past a critical point at which the OW torque/acceleration caught up with me.
@Franky if you accelerate too fast, You will nosedive. You will not feel a pushback cause you are pushing through it too fast. The cpu thinks really fast, but it's not a super processor. Just feel the accelerometer build speed gradually not immediately.
danny last edited by
I nosedived 4 times during my usual commute today.
I wasn't doing anything crazy -- just riding straight in extreme mode (about 8 - 10 mph) on perfectly smooth pavement. However, i did feel less pushback than normal which made the board feel a little unstable.
After each nosedive, the board completely turned off. When I turned it back on, it flashed normally (no errors). Strangely, when I checked the OneWheel app, it had been set back to classic mode.
I contacted support, and I'm sending the board back to FM tomorrow. I will post an update if I find out what the problem was.
thegreck last edited by
@danny I can see how Classic mode would do that, since it maxes out at a much lower speed. So if the board had somehow been put into that mode on accident (I think there's some series of pushes of the power button that can do that, if I'm not mistaken), you could have those issues.
@thegreck It could have been by accident, or somebody could have done it as a prank because the app doesn't have any security yet :(
danny last edited by
@thegreck I thought the same thing too. I noticed that it was in classic mode after the 3rd fall, and set it into extreme mode immediately before I started riding. After the 4th nosedive, the board turned off again and was back in classic mode.
Even if it did somehow switch to classic mode while I was riding, it should still give me pushback at 8 mph.
thegreck last edited by
@danny That's scary. Yeah seems like a malfunction.
fabuz last edited by fabuz
Wanna share with you about my tail dive(not sure it's the good word)...It happens sometimes(less now with experience) only on my backside turn :disappointed:
Sensor Foot pressure and placement seems to be very important :smirk:
Franky last edited by Franky
@fabuz glad you were able to run it out! What is shown in that video is not what happens to most people with a nose dive and needs it's own analysis.
A nose dive happens when your center of gravity is either mostly balanced or towards the nose and you either come off the sensor or touch the nose down trying to go too fast.
A tail dive happens when your center of gravity is mostly on the tail and you come off or let pressure off the sensor such as might happen if you touch the tail down and lift up or shift your nose foot.
I have tail dived several times when riding off road down a steep incline with some big in ground rocks. When approaching a rock I'd try to slowdown quickly ending in a tail slide, pressure coming off sensor, wheel locking up, and board shooting out from under me as I fall backwards. After I did that a couple times I started taking this hill much slower to maintain control which worked well.
I've had the OW for a few months, love the thing, but there is definitely something going on with nosedives in extreme mode. I've had it happen and ate San Francisco Asphalt more then once, at least three times. Same deal with what has been described on this thread - extreme mode, 50+% power, usually flat, then out of no-where the front hits and I go flying.
OW devs: We should have the ability to record all the readings (accel, speed, etc) as sort of a flight recorder of data. I'm sure a lot of us would even send it to OW to analyze. There is something going on here, and if you'd just give us the tools - SDK? - we could figure out what's going on from the data.
@fabuz I may be wrong, but after watching the video, it looks like you had a pretty heavy pushback and your tail touch and you foot came off sensor all in a second. I've had my tail touch a few times. I found it helpful to practice in a controlled area recovering from a tail touch.
chabis last edited by
@TonyGDTLA when do tailtouches occur? whenever you get a heavy pushback? or how were you able to practice them? :D
@chabis sometimes the pushback pushes and without thinking your center of gravity could shift back. And if you lean back in too fast it the tail will touch. I would practice on grass (helmet and stuff) accelerate fast then hard break. Tail will touch and drag. But stay balance and try to recover.
chabis last edited by
@TonyGDTLA good to know... had a few tailtouches up until now but could recover from all of them. still i was worried not to be able to do it every time so this "exercise" should present an opportunity to get "used to it" as much as possible haha. dang it. why's my OW being all weird and stuff. would love to try this right now :(
@kwatts Agreed. The option to enable/disable a data recorder from the app would be awesome. Or, release an SDK and see what the community builds.
There is something going on. It has happened to me several times now: Happily carving at a steady speed on asphalt at ~50% power; feet planted rock steady on both sensors; nose-dive out of nowhere. Ouch.
Problem is I love riding OW too much to not take the punishment.
callenj357 last edited by
I had a pretty bad spill this weekend. Nosedive out of nowhere. I ride often and have a good amount of experience on the board. I am very mindful of my feet and the sensors. Early on when i read about this happening to others, i thought it was related to lack of experience. This is definitely a real issue. For me, flat (very hard) surface, 50%+ on the battery, extreme mode. Luckily i was wearing a helmet and wrist guards.. so only have some bad bruises and raspberries on the left ankle, calf, knee, hip and shoulder.
I do not want to believe it was a malfunction.. because if that is the case, makes me a bit nervous to ride again. But i love it so much. So i ordered some more safety gear.. will wear impact shorts, knee and elbow padding.
Will report back if it happens again. Lets hope not. but i think we have enough reports of this occurring with riders who have had some decent time in the saddle for FM to look into it.
An experience and some questions:
Been riding for a few weeks, always in classic mode, new board so new firmware. Have ridden on smooth pavement, rough pavement, hard dirt, soft slightly muddy dirt, grass. Until this weekend never had the OW do something that I didn’t understand. When first learning I didn’t understand how to work the sensors so I was run over or thrown off in reverse a few times. I believe I now have a good handle on these and can stop and dismount easily in 1 spot without really thinking about it. I don’t ride too fast and don’t think I’ve felt pushback.
This Sunday I thought I would get in a ride before the rain started again here in SF. Streets were dry. I live in some moderate hills and cruised around and up and down not over 6-7mph. Then, with 60%+ battery remaining, I was going straight on a relatively flat street, probably a bit slower than my average speed. While it happened pretty fast, my recollection is that without any warning and without losing my balance. the nose of my board ate the pavement. Wearing helmet and wrist guards, I launched forward – as a snow sports guy I put my right (forward) arm out by reflex. The board continued to travel forward at a 45% angle to the right, thunking loudly against a garage door where it stopped. I dislocated my right arm and spent the rest of the day in the UCSF Emergency Room high on Dilaudid and Fentanyl.
Obviously I would like to understand why this happened. From reading this thread I see some theories but the root cause is unclear. Given the occurrence from time to time of similar experiences, I believe it would be prudent for FM to provide collection of and selected access to real-time actuator/sensor data. If the OW lacks sufficient memory I don’t think it would be hard to log across Bluetooth to the phone. I also think it would be in the company’s best interest in order to improve and refine the behavior of the OW. I would understand a potential reluctance based on litigation risk but it needs to be done and the lawyers would just have to do their best to protect the company, as they do in all motor vehicle industries.
My second question is somewhat higher level. When I am cruising on pavement at a consistent speed in classic, the board sometimes feels like it is leaning a bit forward for a few seconds then leaning a bit back for a few. I am trying to stay balanced over the wheel and not rock forward and back, but I am still getting this feeling. Anyone else find this?
Closing note to FM: I strongly encourage you to follow up on this issue. Right now you have a loyal set of users who are willing to take some bruises for the company and the product; we are certainly not looking to damage the company. Help us to help you improve the behavior of the product and make it more attractive to the mass market. If you need some help or ideas, just let me know. Thanks!