Sensor release delay?

  • Just placed my order a few days ago so I'm right in that stage of mentally visualizing the experience. (I'm coming from snowboarding primarily.)

    I'm curious about how the foot sensor behaves when it cuts power to the motor. It seems to me that it would be good if it had a few milliseconds of delay before it cuts power, so that small hops or slightly repositioning your foot wouldn't cut power immediately. Does it work like that? Or is the power cut immediately? It seems like you would want to set that cutoff so that your foot would need to be off that sensor for longer than say 1/10th of a second or so before power is cut. Or make it a user setting Cutoff delay [Short-Med-Long]?

  • I think the hardest part about the engineers developing a perfect shutoff comes down to the various conditions we ride in. To answer your question really depends on how/where you ride.
    Example. If I ride throughout my windy, hilly neighborhood streets I can slow down easily at a stop sign and slide my front foot off the sensor causing a gentle shutoff and the board is in starting position. On rare occasions when it's very smooth (turf grass, carpet) and you get a little too aggressive a bailout can be necessary. A short hop and the board shuts off a few feet away. Honestly I most always slide my foot off the sensor and the board instantly shuts off. The only tough spots occur when lots of loose gravel or slippery conditions cause the back board plate to slide a bit upon stopping. I hope this answers some questions for you and soon enough you will carving up the world on your OW!

  • @jasont

    That's a great idea with a delayed shut off.. FM should add that to the app

  • I think they have it right. I've also noticed there is a delay and the first few times I was out with the board and learning to dismount I had to stop it running away with my foot. But after riding more, I do notice my sensor foot does shift slightly with turning and going over bumps. If they didn't have the release delay, it would shut down at speed and that wouldn't be good.

    I think they have struck a good balance here, you just have to be careful on the dismount but I always expected that to be the case.

    I also like this sensor design as it does allow for a little bit of wiggle room, as opposed to a binary pressure pad, which would have us eating it constantly...

  • This is a good demo of how sensors work. Behavior changes as you slow.

  • Yep, your foot can come completely off the sensor for readjustments, as long as your going above .5 mph. Note that you will bust your ass if you come to very sudden stop from high speed and do this "rolling dismount" method (shown in the video posted above). I've mastered how to do it after a couple of months of riding, but I don't recommend it for brand new riders.

  • Oh that looks like it works great, thanks for the video. I was getting paranoid reading posts about people nosediving while going near top speed and blaming that they lifted their sensor foot causing it to cut power. Seems like that should never happen. I guess the cutoff delay would be to tell the difference between getting a little bit of air and jumping off deliberately.

  • @sidebox is half right. There are two sensors and above .5 your foot can come off one or the other without the board shutting off. If you loose contact with both sensors for too long then the board will shut down and it will nose dive.

    After I watched the video a while back I tested it out and did like the video pivoting on my heel and put toes forward without loosing power. I then got my toes back on the sensor and decided to try lifting my heel up and the board shut off, nose dive, and thankfully I ran it out. I quickly realized that I ride with my toes off the board and when I leaned to my toes I was all the way off both sensors and had my weight on the very corner of the board.

    I honestly don't get some users that say the board should never nose's like saying they need to make cars that never crash. Riding any board has its risks and onewheel is less risky than a skateboard in many ways but more risky in others. Make no mistake that nose diving is a real risk in two major ways. 1) inexperience lifting your foot off the sensor in any mode. 2) pushing too hard in extreme especially going uphill or on uneven surfaces where the board needs a little extra attention to stay upright.

    As far as a delay goes, it's a two sided coin. Many of us have stumbled off and the board has jutted into the back of a leg because it didn't disengage immediately. I think their is already a small delay and it has helped reduced nosediving along with other changes. But any more delay makes a jutting board too dangerous especially around other people. Case in point riding around other people is already hard riding so slow. Now imagine getting nervous and hoping off but your board shoots forward into someone's legs or a child.

    The long term answer would be a larger motor that can treat extreme speeds with the pushback ability of classic. And maybe a front and back foot sensor so you can shift your foot off one or the other and the board will stay engaged...but even that could be more dangerous with the board jutting forward as you stumble off. Just watch some Segway blupers to see how dangerous it is when an out of control machine does disengage quickly.

  • @jasont It's a legitimate concern, absolutely. And much discussion was had about it in the kickstarter comment section.
    But I have to say, I've been riding for several months now, using it to commute to work. I've never had the board throw me off at high speed. I've lost balance a few times when standing still, but that's my fault.
    Before the update with pushback added to extreme mode, it did send a few of us trying it out flying. We all landed safely on our feet however.
    Getting air can be quite scary, because the wheel can't compensate balance when not in contact with the ground :grinning: . And I wouldn't recommend going at full speed over bigger bumps. You'll get the feel for it after a while, as with any vehicle.

  • Wouldnt it be alot better if the board didnt shut off, but more "keep rolling", think like stepping on your clutch in a car? And with all those sensors, I bet it could extract the info of "ops, he/she took the foot of, or yepp, this guy is crashing"

  • @BadWolf
    Good question. If it really has to happen at speed, then probably. Might not be great with runaway boards, and depending on if you lean forward or backwards at the time, it might not help at all.
    That is if the engine can do that. It never goes into "clutch" mode as long as the engine is "on" afaik, and might make things worse. I hope, and think that FM has done some safety testing in this area.

    But as long as this isn't default behavior, since getting off would be a whole lot less gracious :grin: .

    In my mind it makes sense for to board to always resort to emergency brake, like the battery warning, if the sensor is fully disengaged in speed.

  • As above, I've found it's really all about knowing how the board behaves. Here's what I did to get over my fear of nose dive.

    1. Get up to top speed, as soon as you feel the push back, jump off and run it out (this is super easy, practice on grass or beach if you like)
    2. Get up to speed and keep going until it noses dives (again, on grass or beach if you feel safer that way. You should be able to easily run it out)
    3. Accelerate as hard as you can until it nose dives

    The idea is to get to know the board better. Once I did this I had a better understanding of the thresholds, I could ride with much more confidence and control.

    For the acceleration it generally just barks at you (you can audibly hear the motor complaining) so you naturally back off, but this is a good thing to know as well! Also regarding acceleration, I recently switched to elevated for hills, but I found this makes a world of difference for acceleration in general. I am yet to repeat the process with elevated but will when I'm next at the beach.

  • @Franky I guess I said that in a roundabout way. I meant either sensor, not both.

  • I'm not sure the sensor does shut off the board immediately. I suspect that the last firmware update changed the timing.

    Tonight I was at lights and stationary but I lost my balance and bailed out. The board took off (high grip concrete surface) and ran about 4 meters where it HIT :anguished: a cyclist. Fortunately it was an adult and the bottom of his pedal hit the top of the wheel and the board was going fairly slow at that point so he was barely affected. But if that had been a little kid on foot, at that distance, the board would have scooped their feet and put them on the ground for sure :disappointed_relieved:

    But the slower shutoff is a heck of a lot safer for me riding it. Much less likely to get dumped.

    Increase the sensor release delay = menace to society
    Decrease the sensor release delay = menace to me

    Not sure what can be done about that. If sensor delay is the only knob that can be tweaked then this is a conundrum. FM needs to think up some other way to keep us and pedestrians both safe. More sensors? The hippie jump should, in my opinion, be impossible. The board should detect the loss of rider and immediately brake.

    One way to keep the public safe: snowboard leash to prevent a runaway.

  • @jasont a release time range that the user could adjust would be GREAT

  • @Andrew @Franky is right. This video was shot after the firmware updates from a onewheel employee. The explanation says in detail what Franky described.

    If that keeps happening to you, I'd contact support if you don't have some crazy amount of grip tape slip.

  • @veryous said:

    @Andrew @Franky is right. This video was shot after the firmware updates from a onewheel employee. The explanation says in detail what Franky described.

    If that keeps happening to you, I'd contact support if you don't have some crazy amount of grip tape slip.

    I was stationary, that video shows the board moving.

  • @Andrew this started happening to me at one point and I brought it to onewheel and Julian fixed it.

  • @kbern said:

    @Andrew this started happening to me at one point and I brought it to onewheel and Julian fixed it.

    Man, that would be a serious problem for me. It is USD$400 round trip on repairs for international backers?

    I was hoping that this was designed behavior but if it is defective then maybe I really will need a snowboard leash to keep it close.

  • @Andrew Well, mine was doing it every time and running really far (15') and really fast. If yours just did it once or twice, maybe don't worry about it.

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