Nosediving +

  • For the second time in two days I've gone down HARD on an inexplicable nosedive/deadboard out of nowhere. Yesterday was on a track for god's sake--smooth, flat, zero obstruction, accelerating and BANG at 9.6 mph down goes the nose and down goes me. Deadboard nosedown, not through the pushback nosedown. I know what that feels like. I can ride that out.

    And today on the way home, same type of scenario. Sidewalk, smooth, no obstruction, accelerating and BANG down goes the nose. This time the board turned itself off. OFF! WTF? I am very unhappy. My hands hurt badly and my confidence is GONE. The problem is not me--I've ridden a V1 since August '16 and the + for two weeks or so. I know what I'm doing. I can ride hard without falling, and when I do I own it. But this is a tech issue I think, and twice I've gone down when I wasn't riding hard at all--just cruising comfortably and sure as hell not ready for a deadboard.

    No--I'm not in Sequoia or Cruz or whatever--only Mission.

    Anyone else (with experience and a +) experience this? I've been accelerating both times. I tend to ride city streets knees bent like a skater so pretty damn sure I didn't just lean way the hell out over the top.

  • more people had this problem, contact FM

  • @shattle if you're sure it's not being caused by your stance or a sudden forward shift of your weight, contact FM.

  • @shattle I had this same problem when I first got my +. 3 different times I was riding along between 10-15 mphs and the board took a sudden unexpected nosedive in Mission. When I first got my board, I never felt any pushback for the first week or so and didn't have any pushback before these nosedives. The + is my first experience with a OneWheel so you could chalk it up to inexperience but now that I have 200 miles on the OneWheel, I am even more convinced that board wasn't functioning correctly when I first got it. Also I am(was) a daily electric skateboard rider, and have a fair amount of experience on a segway. So i am very comfortable on a board and I know pushback when I feels like.

    So when did it change? Like I said I never felt any pushback in Mission mode(or any mode for that matter, but basically went straight to mission) the first week or so when I had these unexpected nosedives. So in an effort to feel pushback on a OneWheel for the first time, I switched my board to Cruz mode and started riding it fast. At first I didn't feel anything and then suddenly the pushback started pretty intensely. Now that I finally felt pushback on Cruz, I switched to Mission and just like that I started feeling pushback in Mission that I was not feeling before and been feeling it ever since. So I don't know enough about the internals of a OneWheel, but I feel like perhaps the parts needed to settle in / break in and now seem to be working correctly. Another thing that I thought was odd when I first got my OneWheel, I would hear a little click / knock sometimes when riding, but after this forced pushback in Cruz, I haven't heard this noise anymore.

    So in my case, I am convinced that perhaps something was a little out of alignment / hung up that finally settled in after forcing major pushback in Cruz and now it works as I would expect in mission as well.

  • ugh. don't like to hear this. hopefully we get some good answers on this thread! weird to me that on all the threads i've read, i don't think i've once seen FM respond. like, can we get an engineer from there to pipe up? tell us about pushback, etc???

  • @PwnWheel FM never responds, they're completely hands-off in this forum

  • @groovyruvy
    Yeah--I see the forum as a place to talk to other Onewheelers--not FM. I like to hear from the multitude of riders out there, with so many different styles, terrain, experiences.... That's where the little bugs become apparent and where we can get feedback from real riders.

  • @shattle i get it. but all everyone is doing is hypothesizing about the issues. it'd be nice to get some real answers. this guy's board dives at 9mph, this dude can go 27mph fine, this guy gets extreme pushback, this one doesn't, it's your foot placement, did you lean, blah blah blah. for $1,500 this thing shouldn't be a sleeping potential death trap.

  • @PwnWheel That's all true too. But with brand new tech and envelope-pushing opportunities created by the tech, I sort of expect a certain amount of twitchiness--it seems like it would be exceptionally difficult to lab-create the real world testing by thousands of riders. I hate that my confidence in the tech is blown, since that is what enabled me to ride the way I like, but for me occasional tech bugs are just part of the equation when you buy fancy new tech. As long as they fix the bugs. ;)

  • I remember the same thing had happened with V1.
    They did few firmware updates until they got it just right with the 3056,
    albeit some annoying pushback at 14 mph, I think it's still the best we could have.

    The + may need some tweaking along the way, but likely much less than the V1 as FM has plenty of experience by now.

    Worth mentioning though that during the V1 mishaps, it was almost always user's error.

    FM doesn't get involved in public forums for valid reasons,
    but I'd bet they read posts here and on FB and gather plenty of feedback...

  • @PwnWheel let me try and put your mind at ease. You're going to hear a LOT of different (conflicting) stories and points of view on this forum. Some riders have a lot of experience, others have a little (or none). Many (not all) of the nosedive issues you're hearing about are a result of rider stance, body angle, gunning it too hard and/or being in the wrong digital shaping mode; or in some cases riders have reported problems after app updates (I've never experienced this). If it's none of those issues, there's a problem with the board and it needs to go back to FM. Shipping a board back to FM is more the exception rather than the rule- it happens, but it's not like every other board needs to go back. If you read the instructions that come with the board, follow best practices outlined in this forum, take adequate time to ease into more aggressive riding / higher speeds and wear personal protection, you will be fine, and well-prepared for any eventualities.

  • @sonny123 I refuse to be told this was user error. I know what I'm doing. I've crashed HARD because of my own errors. This was no error. I was up and riding on a sidewalk I've carved over a hundred times, the board went dead, I went down like a load of bricks, and when I crawled back to my board, it was turned off. Zero chance I leaned down and turned off my board while I was riding.

  • @shattle

    Well, I said almost always.
    Doesn't mean there isn't faulty boards out there.

    I think you should send it in and complete test.

  • I posted on another thread about my experience last weekend. I have been riding a v1 for a couple of months on and off road, I got my + last week and I've seen a couple of strange things:

    1. The motor turning off while I'm on it with my foot completely on the foot pad and standing still or moving extremely slowly
    2. Nose dive going uphill
    3. A couple of nosedives that you can see on this video:

    I keep my weight typically on the back foot (that helped me to keep going on this couple of nosedives), so you can see that I start accelerating and then it seems the bump plus me accelerating generates the first nose dive, I more concerned around the second nose dive, on this one I had my weight on the back foot but the OW+ stopped pushing back and that's how the second nose dive happened, luckily I was able to recover from both and keep going.

  • @sonny123 I will admit that my nosedives happened within my first week of riding a OneWheel. I thought perhaps it was something I was doing incorrectly. However the more and more I ride, the more certainty I have that there was an issue with the board that has since worked itself out. One thing I can clearly reference that has no basis on rider stance etc is the clicking I used to hear from within the motor that I no longer hear. Also my nosedives happened on completely smooth pavement within a parking garage while trying to gain speed as slowly as possible.
    I know I should contact FM to get it resolved for certain; however it seems to be working correctly now, and I really don't want to have to be without it for any period of time. :)

  • @goodblake-eskate sorry that i am asking you again but after some time of using it what is more fun to ride GT or OW+ ? (Sorry for offtopic question)

  • I experienced a nosedive on my + last week at high speed. Very abrupt and I didn't anticipate it at all, but I think I understand what happened, and it was almost certainly self-induced by some very aggressive riding. It was definitely a tough lesson learned for me and worth sharing so others can learn from it.

    Mission mode on flat, smooth pavement trail. I was carving back and forth while being fairly aggressive accelerating during heel-side turns and decelerating toe-side. The feel of this type of riding reminded me a lot of surfing, accelerating down the face of a wave and then slowing down while carving back up and across. Awesome feel, and it's a lot of fun on the OW. It was after accelerating fairly aggressively and reaching high speed that the board completely shut down and did a nosedive. Lots of road rash, sprained wrist, not fun.

    I have felt push back when cruising and always honored it by slowing down a bit. In this case, however, I think I likely pushed right on through any push back from the board without ever feeling it since I was accelerating and carving fairly aggressively. Lesson for me -- don't be so aggressive with accelerating and allow margin for the board to communicate (push back) when it's nearing the edge of the envelope.

    It would be great if the board could be mech'd to wind down gradually to a stop when that edge-of-envelope is reached, but I don't know enough about the technical design to understand why this isn't possible. It shuts off and the nose dives into the pavement at high speed. Off you go.

    It seems reasonable to assume that FM's own riders experienced plenty of nosedives during testing and that they're well aware of the riding styles that can induce them. They've communicated at least some of these in the owner's manual, but it may be tough to outline all the ways that it can happen. I can say for sure that I'd be pretty freaked out if this happened to me while just cruising along smoothly at a constant speed. I wouldn't get back on that board without having it looked at by FM. In my case I was clearly being too aggressive during acceleration and I'm more than happy to own up for that.

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  • @timvdp said in Nosediving +:

    always keeping pressure on your entire foot

    I saw this debunked on the facebook group by user Jody James‎, he had a video of himself riding his plus at a good speed and raising his heel up completely off one side of the sensor pad and it kept riding fine:

    "Several days ago there was a discussion about whether the plus will function properly at speed when only one sensor is activated (i.e. lifting your heel). I can't find the original post so I don't know if this already has been demonstrated to the satisfaction of whoever made the challenge for video proof- apologies if this post is redundant. Bottom line: The board rides fine when one sensor goes cold. Heel lift shuts down the motor, but only at very low speeds."

    "It will only shut off under .5 mph"

  • @RandomNate Hear hear! I ride aggressively enough that my frontside heel lifts frequently. Has never been a problem. The flatfoot at all times advice is not correct.

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