Do not ride at high speed!

  • @cameroni79 Delerium is good to bursts of 20+mph on the right surface, with the right grade, piloted by the right rider. You have to realize that at those speeds your margin of remaining engine capacity is razor thin and that you, the rider, are more responsible for your fore-aft balance than the combined motor, circuits, and algorithms. Because you're on the verge of exceeding the capacity of what they're capable of you have to be ready to pull back as soon as you feel the engine about to give out.

    I got pretty good at this on my V1 but I don't have the protective equipment to fully speed test my +. The energy of a crash increases exponentially with velocity and I'm actually pretty happy with being able to go 17-18 mph without being constantly on the verge of eating shit.

    I think it's insane all these 5 week OW+ owners (not you specifically, OP, just people I've seen on the FB group) bragging about their 22mph records. I strongly recommend anyone who wants to dance with the speed devil to be damn sure they can balance on the board in a freewheel situation for at least a couple of seconds. A balance board on a roller is probably the best training for this, but you can also just try standing on your powered down OW and balancing in the grass.

    Sorry about your injuries @cameroni79 and thank you for posting. Maybe your warning will save some pain, suffering, and missed work for some other rider(s). Hope you heal up quick. How many ribs did you fracture? Chest tube out yet?

  • @bmtka chest tube is still in. Was hoping to get it out today, but no dice. Lung started to collapse again. In response to some other posts, I've had no trouble cruising at 19-20 mph. My record is 21.7. That being said, there was zero warning on this crash. It shut down totally. I drive track and do some pretty cool stuff, but I would have had to have been spider man to have reacted to this. It was instant failure.

  • @cameroni79 That's what I'm saying. The nosedive at speed is basically just the motor cutting out and you need to react. You basically have to be Spiderman and you can be, but it takes months of familiarization with the subtleties of the board and developing muscle memory to deal with the unexpected.

    I've said this many, many times on this forum, the biggest problem with OneWheel is it gives new riders way too much confidence too soon. It's so easy to get the hang of and the fun of it is incredible so it's inevitable that you start to push yourself more than you should. I know I did. Broke my arm 5 weeks in on the V1.

    You were able to "cruise" at that speed before, but this time something was different (assuming you didn't catch a corner turning). It could have been very subtle, but something caused the motor to overrun and dump you this time. You have to already be expecting it to react.

    17-18 is really the top speed for "cruising" comfortably. Above that you have to be in a pretty athletic mindset.

  • @inthemud

    I'm worried that they do get sued or get classified as a dangerous product. It will close them down. Some countries stop the import of "toys" if it is deemed dangerous.

  • @jaconz that's a very valid concern.

  • for those that are saying you shouldn't be pushing or doing what we are doing are totally wrong. I have driven a ton of stuff and never has the equipment shut off to stop dead and make me spiderman. sorry that is just plain wrong, it should not nose dive period. never want it to be deemed dangerous but need onewheel to respond quickly to the issues.

  • @inthemud And what would you suggest they do? There is no push the board to far you may get hurt. Take some personal responsibility or find another hobby. I ride dirtbikes, snowboards, and other dangerous activities. I dont blame KTM when I crash my moto from taking a turn to fast or Lib Tech when I jump off a cliff and break a leg. You must stay within your and your equipments limits or bad things happen.

  • @inthemud I would have been one of those guys before Thursday, but now I agree with you. The way it's currently designed is totally insane. There's a leader board encouraging you to try to be the fastest, but the wheel itself is designed to just cut off and throw you if you aren't spider man. This hospital run is going to be over 100,000 dollars. My shoulder is most likely damaged for life. The onewheel plus is not an okay item.

  • This post is deleted!

  • Sorry for your accident and the necessity of dealing with for-profit healthcare.

    Fully agree that the speed side of the leaderboard should be removed from the app. Game-ifying speed is a bad idea.

  • @readysetawesome well that depends. The device is stable at high speed, but the motor cutting out is a pure death trap.

  • @Cameroni79 I haven't really noticed myself, but people have complained that the app is showing their speed as lower than before the update. Could it be you were actually going faster than you thought because of inaccurate speed reporting?

    The motor only cuts out at high speed because you've exceeded it's capacity. Period. You roll through the last pushback and then the motor is going to maintain for you until it absolutely can't because that's what you're asking of it. Maybe you didn't notice you rode through pushback? When you're rolling at 20 and hear that whine you know that you are about to become 100% responsible for your uprightness. It's possible to recover like many of us have said, but there is no safe way for the machine to stop you at this point. Pushback is the motor accelerating against your lean. It can't do that when it's about to overrun.

    This is a characteristic of the very nature of this type of machine. If they made a motor that was capable of 30mph we would be hearing about fatalities by now. You absolutely have to understand the physics of these things and you have to respect their limits with regard to your abilities.

    I do absolutely agree that the speed leader boards need to go. They were fun for the unofficial app, they seem like a liability now for the company.

  • @bmtka agree.

    Maybe the 19 mph ability is misleading but pushback happens so that if you don't have an Apple Watch or smartphone you know the board is at the last point of full control. After that point the motor can only do so much.

    Bottom of the board and Page 35 of the manual: WARNING: Ignoring safety warnings, including push back, may result in loss of control, serious injury or death.

  • I constantly ride around 22-23 according to a speed radar sign by my neighborhood and the app, I have heard for some people that the speedometer on the app is 2-4mph higher than actual so you might've been pushing it to hard, I know it would be nice rover pushback that fast before you nosedive but it just can't your pushing it to hard I guess I had a gnarly nosedive like a little under a week ago and my road rash scars are coming out nice😉 But isuallybj get pushback in delerium around 19ish than I know to back off or push through t a bit and once you push through it it's harder to stop harder to avoid stuff and any slight movements or bumps will just buck you off. Hope you heal upp soon and can get back to shredding, btw when I crashed the board did not turn off or anything I hopped back on and thought how lucky I was I had wrist gaurds on preventing the almost inevitable 2 broke wrists I would have had I not been wearing them

  • @skyman88 right. I didn't notice any pushback and delirium advertises its capability at 20 mph. If 20 is the brink of death, then saying it'll do 20 is insane.

  • As we all know, nose dives happen because the board runs out of power to keep you balanced. If you keep applying more weight to the front, the motor will have to compensate that with extra torque, until it runs out of it, and you nose dive. It is impossible to design a self balancing board that does not nosedive at the limit.

    Also notice that nosedives have nothing to do with going a particular speed, but actually with the load on the motor. The top speed you'll be able to achieve depends os several variables, such as slope, tire pressure, rider weight, terrain, wind, rider stance, etc...

    Just because you hit whatever mph under certain conditions, it does not mean that you'll be able to do it under another set of conditions.

    Yes, delirium advertises it is possible to achieve 20mph. This is not a guaranty you'll be able to achieve that speed under all conditions.

    As for why pushback doesn't happen right before you nosedive, the motor needs to apply extra torque to lift the front to create pushback. If the motor is almost running out of power, obviously, it cannot create pushback, it just doesn't have the spare capability to do so. That is why, if after the inital pushbak you still keep more weight on the front, the board will eventually level off, and only after that nosedive. I think that is where the "I never felt pushback before nosedive" myth comes from.

    Now, what I do agree FM is very guilty of is not properly communicating this in the manual.

  • Original V1 kickstarter backer and + owner here. I have thousands of miles on my OW's. I have never understood the motivation to push through pushback. I've understood the resulting shock at nosediving after pushing though pushback even less. Pushback is a safety mechanism. You ignore it at your peril. You may not get it at 20 because the motor is maxed, but you got it at 16. I know because I have every time. If you can't feel it, you need more practice at low speed. Marketing aside, this is not a 20mph board. It's a 16 mph board. If you want 20, buy a boosted, Evolve, Metro, etc.

    I remember early days with V1 when there was zero pushback. That was dangerous. FM fixed that. Nowadays, riders leaning through and ignoring the very safety mechanism FM added and then being surprised when there isn't some second, never mentioned, magical safety mechanism baffle me.

    Be safe out there - read the manual and heed the warnings from the manual and the firmware.

  • @lynnpreston sorry, but you're dead wrong. You can't put 20mph on the app under delirium if the board is just barely capable of hitting that number under perfect conditions. At 20, you're basically asking to be thrown to the pavement. That is stated exactly nowhere. If it said max speed 20 mph, but understand this board will throw you to the pavement at any given moment at that speed, then you would have an argument. I know it's easy to sit there and say it's all rider error, but you flat out can't advertise 20 mph if 20 mph is that precarious. The board should have safety torque available above any advertised speed. That's coming from a guy that owns businesses and is currently sitting in the hospital with a tube stuck in his lung through his ribs.

  • @cameroni79 I agree that this is a problem. I also think the board should give an audible indicator when you are getting too close to the line.

    I'm not sure that the ability to push through pushback is a good idea.

  • You have an excellent point. However, my view is that your point is related to false advertising, not health and safety. Health and safety are covered by the manual. The app and website are the domain of the marketing department.

    For those that disagree, legal action is an option. Certainly cases have been made with less in our increasingly litigious society. While unlikely, an overzealous marketing department and the inability of a few to follow health and safety directions may ruin all our fun and what I view as a great small business.

    IMHO sacrificing innovative small companies on the alter of willful consumer irresponsibility is a bad trade for everyone in the end.

    ETA: I am truly sorry for your accident. My honest desire is for everyone to be safe and for their OW to bring as much joy to their life as mine.

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