Do not ride at high speed!



  • @readysetawesome well that depends. The device is stable at high speed, but the motor cutting out is a pure death trap.



  • @Cameroni79 I haven't really noticed myself, but people have complained that the app is showing their speed as lower than before the update. Could it be you were actually going faster than you thought because of inaccurate speed reporting?

    The motor only cuts out at high speed because you've exceeded it's capacity. Period. You roll through the last pushback and then the motor is going to maintain for you until it absolutely can't because that's what you're asking of it. Maybe you didn't notice you rode through pushback? When you're rolling at 20 and hear that whine you know that you are about to become 100% responsible for your uprightness. It's possible to recover like many of us have said, but there is no safe way for the machine to stop you at this point. Pushback is the motor accelerating against your lean. It can't do that when it's about to overrun.

    This is a characteristic of the very nature of this type of machine. If they made a motor that was capable of 30mph we would be hearing about fatalities by now. You absolutely have to understand the physics of these things and you have to respect their limits with regard to your abilities.

    I do absolutely agree that the speed leader boards need to go. They were fun for the unofficial app, they seem like a liability now for the company.



  • @bmtka agree.

    Maybe the 19 mph ability is misleading but pushback happens so that if you don't have an Apple Watch or smartphone you know the board is at the last point of full control. After that point the motor can only do so much.

    Bottom of the board and Page 35 of the manual: WARNING: Ignoring safety warnings, including push back, may result in loss of control, serious injury or death.



  • I constantly ride around 22-23 according to a speed radar sign by my neighborhood and the app, I have heard for some people that the speedometer on the app is 2-4mph higher than actual so you might've been pushing it to hard, I know it would be nice rover pushback that fast before you nosedive but it just can't your pushing it to hard I guess I had a gnarly nosedive like a little under a week ago and my road rash scars are coming out nice😉 But isuallybj get pushback in delerium around 19ish than I know to back off or push through t a bit and once you push through it it's harder to stop harder to avoid stuff and any slight movements or bumps will just buck you off. Hope you heal upp soon and can get back to shredding, btw when I crashed the board did not turn off or anything I hopped back on and thought how lucky I was I had wrist gaurds on preventing the almost inevitable 2 broke wrists I would have had I not been wearing them



  • @skyman88 right. I didn't notice any pushback and delirium advertises its capability at 20 mph. If 20 is the brink of death, then saying it'll do 20 is insane.



  • As we all know, nose dives happen because the board runs out of power to keep you balanced. If you keep applying more weight to the front, the motor will have to compensate that with extra torque, until it runs out of it, and you nose dive. It is impossible to design a self balancing board that does not nosedive at the limit.

    Also notice that nosedives have nothing to do with going a particular speed, but actually with the load on the motor. The top speed you'll be able to achieve depends os several variables, such as slope, tire pressure, rider weight, terrain, wind, rider stance, etc...

    Just because you hit whatever mph under certain conditions, it does not mean that you'll be able to do it under another set of conditions.

    Yes, delirium advertises it is possible to achieve 20mph. This is not a guaranty you'll be able to achieve that speed under all conditions.

    As for why pushback doesn't happen right before you nosedive, the motor needs to apply extra torque to lift the front to create pushback. If the motor is almost running out of power, obviously, it cannot create pushback, it just doesn't have the spare capability to do so. That is why, if after the inital pushbak you still keep more weight on the front, the board will eventually level off, and only after that nosedive. I think that is where the "I never felt pushback before nosedive" myth comes from.

    Now, what I do agree FM is very guilty of is not properly communicating this in the manual.



  • Original V1 kickstarter backer and + owner here. I have thousands of miles on my OW's. I have never understood the motivation to push through pushback. I've understood the resulting shock at nosediving after pushing though pushback even less. Pushback is a safety mechanism. You ignore it at your peril. You may not get it at 20 because the motor is maxed, but you got it at 16. I know because I have every time. If you can't feel it, you need more practice at low speed. Marketing aside, this is not a 20mph board. It's a 16 mph board. If you want 20, buy a boosted, Evolve, Metro, etc.

    I remember early days with V1 when there was zero pushback. That was dangerous. FM fixed that. Nowadays, riders leaning through and ignoring the very safety mechanism FM added and then being surprised when there isn't some second, never mentioned, magical safety mechanism baffle me.

    Be safe out there - read the manual and heed the warnings from the manual and the firmware.



  • @lynnpreston sorry, but you're dead wrong. You can't put 20mph on the app under delirium if the board is just barely capable of hitting that number under perfect conditions. At 20, you're basically asking to be thrown to the pavement. That is stated exactly nowhere. If it said max speed 20 mph, but understand this board will throw you to the pavement at any given moment at that speed, then you would have an argument. I know it's easy to sit there and say it's all rider error, but you flat out can't advertise 20 mph if 20 mph is that precarious. The board should have safety torque available above any advertised speed. That's coming from a guy that owns businesses and is currently sitting in the hospital with a tube stuck in his lung through his ribs.



  • @cameroni79 I agree that this is a problem. I also think the board should give an audible indicator when you are getting too close to the line.

    I'm not sure that the ability to push through pushback is a good idea.



  • You have an excellent point. However, my view is that your point is related to false advertising, not health and safety. Health and safety are covered by the manual. The app and website are the domain of the marketing department.

    For those that disagree, legal action is an option. Certainly cases have been made with less in our increasingly litigious society. While unlikely, an overzealous marketing department and the inability of a few to follow health and safety directions may ruin all our fun and what I view as a great small business.

    IMHO sacrificing innovative small companies on the alter of willful consumer irresponsibility is a bad trade for everyone in the end.

    ETA: I am truly sorry for your accident. My honest desire is for everyone to be safe and for their OW to bring as much joy to their life as mine.



  • @lynnpreston I think I agree. When i read the manual it made it clear that I should never attempt most of what I see in the marketing videos and it also inspired me to keep it pretty slow. When I am goin "fast" (15 mph for me) I'm thinking about falling constantly and preparing for the worst.



  • I'm feeling that there is a raising number of nosedive complains since delirium.

    Is it just me ? Have they been so numerous before?

    Also, It seems that before, nosedivers were aware of there mistake or at least admit they were going fast and/or uphill.
    Since Andromeda it seems there are more non explicable nosedives.

    It scares me as I'm waiting for my own board right now!

    Toughts?



  • I had only had my V2 for a couple days before my first nosedive. I was riding in mission and not going full speed, I felt no pushback before the board stopped balancing me. I smashed up my knee into the pavement and may need surgery. This happened last Saturday.



  • @lirou said in Do not ride at high speed!:

    Also notice that nosedives have nothing to do with going a particular speed, but actually with the load on the motor. The top speed you'll be able to achieve depends os several variables, such as slope, tire pressure, rider weight, terrain, wind, rider stance, etc...

    Just because you hit whatever mph under certain conditions, it does not mean that you'll be able to do it under another set of conditions.

    Yes, delirium advertises it is possible to achieve 20mph. This is not a guaranty you'll be able to achieve that speed under all conditions.

    Exactly this. Things like stance or distribution of weight in your pack or whether you pooped yet that day, subtle wind direction changes or variances in air pressure and humidity, exact type of surface paving material and your tire pressure; these all factor into motor load. I suppose that a very high ambient temperature would also potentially lower your top speed because of less efficient motor cooling. This thought has made me more reserved about pushing higher speeds on really hot days.

    The OW+ is actually marketed as a 19mph top-speed machine. You can maybe argue that the app is part of that marketing, but you can't even see the shaping modes untill a board is connected and we didn't even know about delerium until a few days after the first boards were sent out and they finally dropped the app.

    Last night I thought that maybe an audio warning would be a reasonable last failsafe, but I doubt it would work in time for most people who would ignore pushback to the point of motor failure and it would just startle and enrage advanced riders.

    Jeeze, I hate to even suggest paternalistic gatekeeping, but is that what is needed? Should new owners have to reach certainl thresholds before higher speed shaping is enabled for them? Like you need 300 miles under your belt for mission and 600 for delerium? Should FM gamify their liability management, "Achievement Unlocked! -- Rider, you have ridden for 50 miles switchstance in Sequoia and now have the ability to try Cruz shaping. Congratulations!"

    Maybe a mandatory online safety class with a test at the end before being given an unlock code for the app?

    Perhaps new riders should be made to fly out to San Jose to undergo 8 hours of intensive physics lessons and crash training on a padded course before having their boards shipped?

    Of course, these are ridiculous ideas, but you get the point.



  • @nathan It sounds like you might have been off a sensor for too long. It happens when you're just figuring your stance out. Was much more a problem on V1 but I've seen others do it on the +.

    Did you twist your knee or just bash it?



  • @bmtka just bashed it really bad. The ER doc said they are treating as an avulsion but I need to see a specialist

    I would really love to know if my foot came off the sensor or not. I've sent the diagnostics to FM but have not followed up.



  • @nathan Avulsion fracture? Ewwww. Knee pads? If so, what kind?



  • I wasn't wearing knee pads. I'm sure I'd be doing a lot better right now if I had. I've definitely learned my lesson there.



  • @bmtka said in Do not ride at high speed!:

    @nathan It sounds like you might have been off a sensor for too long. It happens when you're just figuring your stance out. Was much more a problem on V1 but I've seen others do it on the +.

    Did you twist your knee or just bash it?

    Being off a sensor doesn't shut down the board unless you're going less than 1mph.



  • @cameroni79 said in Do not ride at high speed!:

    Being off a sensor doesn't shut down the board unless you're going less than 1mph.

    You are correct. I could have sworn there was a time when you had about 5 seconds on the V1, but I just rode all around my yard on one sensor on my +. It was very awkward.

    @Nathan, that wasn't your problem--the sensor thing, not the lack of pads. :)

    You weren't by chance carving on a bit of an uphill gradient, were you? Or kind of rapidly accelerating on one? If your battery wasn't empty or overcharged and your crash was genuinely caused by the motor cutting out, you might have a faulty board. Hard to tell without sending it in since you're probably staying off of it for the most part right now. You know any experienced riders in your area who could maybe test it for you?