Nosedive on flat path. Crash #3.

  • @sdaiberl

    Sucks that you were thrown, hope you weren't hurt too bad. To help others avoid this situation can you answer the following?
    1- Was the board still on after it shut down? I.e. Did you have to turn it on to ride it again?
    2- Do you have a positive feel for what the pushback feature feels like? I.e. Have you reached the pushback threshold before and was that different than this?
    2- What hardware version are you running? Is it 4208 or or 4206?

    Thanks, and good idea about having an audible signal.

  • @sdaiberl totally agreee pushback should be accompanied by some loud sound so if pushback fails due to weight/speed/tilt/physics at least you get the audible warning. Had a bad nosedive crash under 15mph with no pushback.

  • I don't get how someone in this thread has gone 1200 miles without these issues, and then some people come down hard multiple times at going just 15 mph. In my Nose Dive survey there are even 17 riders that were dropped at < 10mph.

    For these low speed crashes I have the feeling it might indeed be down to intermittent hardware issues of individual boards (assuming most users have upgraded to latest firmware ). At low speeds there should be plenty of power available to balance the rider, especially on the XR.

  • @flix123 You are a little too optimistic that there should be plenty of torque at low speed to balance the rider. Nose dives are possible at any speed, including from rest. A common nose dive scenario is a rider trying to cross an intersection quickly and nose dives as a result, long before they accelerate to high speed. Or going up very steep hills at moderate speeds.

    A warning sign of an impending nose dive is a "surge", which feels like a very momentary wheel slip. If you feel that, back off immediately because a nose dive is about to happen if you keep accelerating. It is most noticeable for heavier riders going up steep hills or accelerating hard. Not noticeable at high speed, which is why heeding pushback is critical if you don't know what you're doing.

    For the record, I am a 230 lb rider with 190 miles on a +XR. Obviously I am still learning, and I have never pushed beyond pushback speeds. No high speed falls (or even medium speed falls) so far. I do have Fangs and they have touched down 3 times or so, all at relatively low speed.

    Edit: It is impossible for FM to eliminate nose dives because no matter what they do, the rider will always be able to force it to nose dive. However, I think there are steps that FM could do to help riders from unintentionally pushing their boards into nose dives. Maybe they are worried about liability, since if they leave it up to the rider they can't get in trouble for implementing an imperfect solution.

  • @jlk250 is right, nosedives can still happen easily at <10mph for non-hardware-failure reasons. I nosedive every time I hit a particular dip on a small, seemingly easy, uphill section by my house. doesn't look or feel like much of a bump but it is just the right shape to overwhelm my board's torque at about 8mph. So now I avoid it and I haven't had a nosedive in 2000 miles or riding.

    If the OPs board was completely powered down after the fall then I would look into hardware issues. If not then I would guess it's another case of need to respect the board's limitations, that's what it was asking you to do when you felt that surge, that surge is exactly the warning you are asking for.

  • @flix123 said in Nosedive on flat path. Crash #3.:

    For these low speed crashes I have the feeling it might indeed be down to intermittent hardware issues of individual boards (assuming most users have upgraded to latest firmware ). At low speeds there should be plenty of power available to balance the rider, especially on the XR.

    I am one of the low speed crashes on your survey. I had 90 miles under my belt, started feeling a bit cocky. This was before all the forum advice on how to ride. I was almost home, battery close to drained, but figured I had one more lap around the park. Of course there were people around watching, so I leaned heavily into it to accelerate from a very slow speed and barely knew what hit me when I was on the ground. Fully geared, but the cheap gear I had bought slipped off my elbows and knees and I still got some road rash.

    @jlk250 said in Nosedive on flat path. Crash #3.:

    A common nose dive scenario is a rider trying to cross an intersection quickly and nose dives as a result, long before they accelerate to high speed.

    I also experienced this around 900 miles. Nosedived, but after my first 2 nosedives, the Fangs had been invented and saved my a##. :) I even put them on my new XR before I ever rode it.

    As someone said above, we have to be careful what we assume from this survey.

  • Fully understand that ND can happen at low speeds because of sudden acceleration, incline or bump in the road or a combination. But I still believe some are due to hardware issues, because: At least 4 low speed ND respondents have reported the OW was turned OFF after the ND. That alone is quite worrying, its 4 out of 72 cases (what I don't know is if all or some of these are from the same person, that would skew the stats of course).

    Another 6 low to medium speed respondents reported they were travelling constant speed (no acceleration) on level ground: also bit of a worry. So its not really true to say its always due pushing on the gas too hard or going uphill

  • @flix123 - "out of how many" is a really hard-yet-important question to answer. I've seen 3 different videos of faulty footpad sensors causing runaway boards, and heard anecdotally of two others (one of those is a friend of a friend, so I know it's valid).

    And each time, people say, "yeah, a faulty sensor is bound to happen once in a while."

    And that's true - but out of how many? What are there in the US, maybe 50,000 OWs in the wild? Honestly 10K per state seems generous.

    So if you start to hear enough stories of a particular defect, it gets worrying, because 4 or 5 isn't that many out of a million, but it's a lot more out of a hundred. And if runaway boards can be common, some bystander's gonna get hurt sooner or later, and then there'll be hell to pay.

    All of which is to say, I think what you are trying to do is valid, but there will always be some pretty important missing numbers in these equations - and Future Motion sure isn't going to provide them.

  • @Glyph I agree, we cannot know all the numbers, esp not how many are sold but I wanted to have a picture of roughly what % of ND seems unprovoked and that I have now. It makes me ride even more careful and alert which is a good thing

  • Was riding some steeper hills today and not really going too fast, maybe 10-11 mph. On one particularly steep section I felt the motor surge, and thanks to this thread, I backed off a bit and still had enough to finish climbing the hill slowly. Thanks, and keep up the stories, to help us allfrom your experiences.

  • Had a ND at about 3 mph yesterday, just jogged it off. I was crossing a street at a sidewalk and my wheel went into the area of the road that funnels water down the side, and it just happened that it was the exact dimensions as the wheel so it just sorta got stuck. 0_1547362207628_Screenshot_20190113-014946_Chrome.jpg

  • @sidjtd Hello all, first post.

    I ordered a XR after riding one for 3 hours. Before that it was 49 years since I was on one, back in the days when we only had clay wheels. I'm 64, am I the oldest here? :)

    It arrived a couple of days ago but I won't be taking it out until my ribs heal (unrelated to OW). I've just been practicing balancing in one place in our living room. Like most new owners, I've read many posts on various sites about nosedives, so I also ordered a set of Fang that haven't arrived.

    My first question is why the fangs only slow down the abrupt stop, instead of allowing the board to continue rolling. It the wheels are free rolling, why don't they keep you going along on the 3 wheels? If it unexpectedly turns off and the nose dives, wouldn't the tie rotate freely and start coasting? Why the sudden stop?

  • @sdonewheel Assuming a smooth-enough pavement (Fangs are not very large wheels, and could be defeated by a large enough crack in the pavement for example), and you staying on the board, it SHOULD keep rolling. Many riders report recovering from (some) nosedives and continued riding, if using Fangs or similar nose wheels.

    Without Fangs or similar, a nosedive will DEFINITELY be a sudden (meaning, IMMEDIATE) stop, you will be thrown off the front of the board via forward momentum, and at that point your only hope is to run or roll it out.

  • @sdonewheel also when the board is on, there is resistance in the motor. Try turning on the board and without engaging the sensors, roll it about a foot then turn it off and try it again. You’ll notice the resistance. I’m not sure but I believe in some (possibly most) nosedives there’s still that resistance there because the board doesn’t completely shut off. I have fangs too but haven’t had a nosedive due to speed. I have hit the nose going up a steep incline and rode the fangs the rest of the way up the incline until the board could level out.

  • @kd6tav Difficult to remember because I had just crashed hard, but I think I had to turn the board back on to get home.

  • @scott_pdx Hi Scott, yes, I know what a pushback feels like as I have experienced that before when trying to push the board to high speed. This time there was no pushback- all I could feel was an "elastic" surge forward and then the shutdown. I am running 4208.

  • @flix123 My crash was definitely not related to pushing too hard or going uphill. And: everyone I know here in my local community who rides a OW has crashed due to sudden shutdown. That's just simply too much of a likelihood. I am not going to stop riding and just ordered my fangs, but I am really hoping for a solution from FM very soon. Thanks!

  • it's not my fault i ate it. it really isn't. blah blah blah. yeah, it really is your fault you ate it. yeah, you don't know how to ride, yeah that was pushback and bad riding position. if the board is speeding up its because you have too much weight on the front of it. its trying to raise, you're holding it down. it speeds up because of you preventing it from doing its job and dumps you after warning you to get the weight off the front. if you sink your rear knee towards your front knee you will get the weight off the front. if you try to lean back you'll straighten your front leg keeping the board pushed down and accelerating. stop blaming fm for you not being a good rider.

  • @tomfoolery Thanks for the replies. I guess the bottom line is that the Fangs give you at least a chance to run it out (as long as the Fang wheel aren't made of clay)...

  • @tomfoolery I have the feeling the wheel does move freely after a nosedive, as I read another poster has this (kind of funny) problem: When he has a nosedive going up a particular hill and eats it, his onewheel sometimes just rolls back down the hill by itself so fast that he can't catch it.

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