Nosedive on flat path. Crash #3.

  • Was going pretty fast yesterday, around 15 mph, on a relatively flat bike path. My XR briefly felt like it was accelerating unexpectedly and then completely shut down, launching me onto the pavement. This is the third time my board has thrown me off, the other two times were going uphill.

    Whatever this limitation of the board is needs to be resolved by Onewheel ASAP. This is a very serious health hazard and a risk that the rider shouldn't be expected to assume.

    There need to be other measures implemented to slow the board down or to warn the rider before a sudden, unexpected shutdown! A gradual decrease in speed with some audible signal maybe? Shutting down is NOT a solution.

    Seems to me that this "limitation" of the board to throw riders off not only poses health risks to the riders, but substantial legal exposure to the manufacturer.

    I love my OneWheel but I'm not sure it's entirely safe to ride it in the current state of technology.

  • I have an XR that I've put about 1200 miles on. Absolutely no problems, but I agree with you that there should be a built in safety in the event of a nosedive. That's why I spent $100 to buy the Glider front wheels. I know some people view them as "training wheels", but I figure we are dealing with circuits and electricity and those types of things Can fail. At least with the wheels I have a chance of saving it. I just don't want to end up in the hospital with a broken arm because of pride. I feel good about having a safety device on my board. I don't know why OneWheel wouldn't build in front wheels. What if a board fails, a kid hits his head and dies and the family sues OneWheel for $50 Miliion? Does that sound impossible? I don't know. If I built a company and invested time and money and employed people, wouldn't it be wise to try and protect all of that with a safety feature? Just my opinion.

  • @sdaiberl You should get the FANGS or the FlightFins.

    Fangs will drop the board and even marginally slow you down, buying you precious reaction time, even if its 0.5 seconds more, or if lucky a couple seconds. Huge difference from near 0.

    Flightfins are a weird animal. The onewheel is activated by sensing feet on the pad, but flightfins tries to make you go airborne on the onewheel despite jumping by giving a chance to hook your feet in.

    But by jumping, without practice, the board can shutdown because it doesnt sense feet, from what I've seen. HOWEVER, because your feet are "hooked in" I've seen people really quickly flip the backwards and grind to a stop, kinda like how skateboarders do.

    I am not saying that this is an ideal way to stop, but I am saying that the incidental "problem" the flightfins are causing inherently by design ("make board stop by jumping, but flightfins are needed to jump at all") seemed to help riders not nose dive.

    And of course nobody wants to nosedive.

  • @carvingUSA Maybe by excluding it, they are avoiding liability? Think about it. The onewheel does not want to nosedive at all. Nosediving is a result of physics, same reason why a unicycle shoots out from below you.

    So by adding wheels, perhaps they're worried they would product-wise be "endorsing" nosediving protection.

    I am not a legal expert at all so I don't know how it all works. Even though it makes sense to have wheels on it, legally speaking, maybe they are worried that since there is no structural way to address nose diving, that they should not attempt to install solutions that ultimately may result to more abusive-riding styles?

    I have no idea.

  • @carvingUSA thank you for pointing out the Glider wheels. I'll definitely look into that. And to me it doesn't seem that far fetched that a kids hits his/her head and dies as a result of nosedive given the nature and force of my crashes. Thanks again!

  • @sidjtd I am not sure how realistic it is to pull off a rescue move with flight fins or fangs, it seems to me that the sudden complete loss of power in the board is what launches me into the air. But it could be that rolling a bit on the glider wheels or fangs even without power from the board makes the deceleration more manageable and you can actually ride it out. I think you may be right, I'll give it a try. thanks

  • Well the sudden acceleration you felt was the pushback at 15mph. The board accelerates more than usual in a short time in order to lift the nose up. That's why pushback is the raising of the OW's nose. The only way to do that is to accelerate faster than you mean to, so that your base position is tilted back. It's meant to remind you to lean back to slow down. If you continue to ride in spite of the pushback, and don't slow down, that's where the board may or may not be able to continue balancing and accelerating.

    This of course depends on weight, the ground, temperature, and the rider's weight shifts on the board that the motor has to even out and compensate for.

    The motor slowing down would entail the rider leaning forward and the nose pitching down, which may not be the best solution. Personally, I think an auditory warning as the board nears its limits would be good. Maybe at +/-80% of its ability, leaving some room for balancing incidentals, with a beep to signal that the rider is going at their own risk. Kind of like an EUC.

  • @sdaiberl There is a video online where a sudden powerloss results in the onewheel tipping forward then rolling, like a skateboard. (Its neither the fangs or the gliderwheels)

    There is another video where some kid is reviewing the flightfins (some aspiring youtube celebrity kid that I dont know anything about) and his friend jumps using the flightfins, sticks the landing, but I think his foot pressure went so low that the onwheel suddenly shuts off.

    So his onewheel did NOT have the fang/glider wheels, but the flight fins help him jerk the onewheel board back so the backside was dragging instead of the front.

  • @sdaiberl when you state the one wheel “shuts down” does it turn off? And you would have to turn it back on by pushing the on button?

  • @sdaiberl

    Sucks that you were thrown, hope you weren't hurt too bad. To help others avoid this situation can you answer the following?
    1- Was the board still on after it shut down? I.e. Did you have to turn it on to ride it again?
    2- Do you have a positive feel for what the pushback feature feels like? I.e. Have you reached the pushback threshold before and was that different than this?
    2- What hardware version are you running? Is it 4208 or or 4206?

    Thanks, and good idea about having an audible signal.

  • @sdaiberl totally agreee pushback should be accompanied by some loud sound so if pushback fails due to weight/speed/tilt/physics at least you get the audible warning. Had a bad nosedive crash under 15mph with no pushback.

  • I don't get how someone in this thread has gone 1200 miles without these issues, and then some people come down hard multiple times at going just 15 mph. In my Nose Dive survey there are even 17 riders that were dropped at < 10mph.

    For these low speed crashes I have the feeling it might indeed be down to intermittent hardware issues of individual boards (assuming most users have upgraded to latest firmware ). At low speeds there should be plenty of power available to balance the rider, especially on the XR.

  • @flix123 You are a little too optimistic that there should be plenty of torque at low speed to balance the rider. Nose dives are possible at any speed, including from rest. A common nose dive scenario is a rider trying to cross an intersection quickly and nose dives as a result, long before they accelerate to high speed. Or going up very steep hills at moderate speeds.

    A warning sign of an impending nose dive is a "surge", which feels like a very momentary wheel slip. If you feel that, back off immediately because a nose dive is about to happen if you keep accelerating. It is most noticeable for heavier riders going up steep hills or accelerating hard. Not noticeable at high speed, which is why heeding pushback is critical if you don't know what you're doing.

    For the record, I am a 230 lb rider with 190 miles on a +XR. Obviously I am still learning, and I have never pushed beyond pushback speeds. No high speed falls (or even medium speed falls) so far. I do have Fangs and they have touched down 3 times or so, all at relatively low speed.

    Edit: It is impossible for FM to eliminate nose dives because no matter what they do, the rider will always be able to force it to nose dive. However, I think there are steps that FM could do to help riders from unintentionally pushing their boards into nose dives. Maybe they are worried about liability, since if they leave it up to the rider they can't get in trouble for implementing an imperfect solution.

  • @jlk250 is right, nosedives can still happen easily at <10mph for non-hardware-failure reasons. I nosedive every time I hit a particular dip on a small, seemingly easy, uphill section by my house. doesn't look or feel like much of a bump but it is just the right shape to overwhelm my board's torque at about 8mph. So now I avoid it and I haven't had a nosedive in 2000 miles or riding.

    If the OPs board was completely powered down after the fall then I would look into hardware issues. If not then I would guess it's another case of need to respect the board's limitations, that's what it was asking you to do when you felt that surge, that surge is exactly the warning you are asking for.

  • @flix123 said in Nosedive on flat path. Crash #3.:

    For these low speed crashes I have the feeling it might indeed be down to intermittent hardware issues of individual boards (assuming most users have upgraded to latest firmware ). At low speeds there should be plenty of power available to balance the rider, especially on the XR.

    I am one of the low speed crashes on your survey. I had 90 miles under my belt, started feeling a bit cocky. This was before all the forum advice on how to ride. I was almost home, battery close to drained, but figured I had one more lap around the park. Of course there were people around watching, so I leaned heavily into it to accelerate from a very slow speed and barely knew what hit me when I was on the ground. Fully geared, but the cheap gear I had bought slipped off my elbows and knees and I still got some road rash.

    @jlk250 said in Nosedive on flat path. Crash #3.:

    A common nose dive scenario is a rider trying to cross an intersection quickly and nose dives as a result, long before they accelerate to high speed.

    I also experienced this around 900 miles. Nosedived, but after my first 2 nosedives, the Fangs had been invented and saved my a##. :) I even put them on my new XR before I ever rode it.

    As someone said above, we have to be careful what we assume from this survey.

  • Fully understand that ND can happen at low speeds because of sudden acceleration, incline or bump in the road or a combination. But I still believe some are due to hardware issues, because: At least 4 low speed ND respondents have reported the OW was turned OFF after the ND. That alone is quite worrying, its 4 out of 72 cases (what I don't know is if all or some of these are from the same person, that would skew the stats of course).

    Another 6 low to medium speed respondents reported they were travelling constant speed (no acceleration) on level ground: also bit of a worry. So its not really true to say its always due pushing on the gas too hard or going uphill

  • @flix123 - "out of how many" is a really hard-yet-important question to answer. I've seen 3 different videos of faulty footpad sensors causing runaway boards, and heard anecdotally of two others (one of those is a friend of a friend, so I know it's valid).

    And each time, people say, "yeah, a faulty sensor is bound to happen once in a while."

    And that's true - but out of how many? What are there in the US, maybe 50,000 OWs in the wild? Honestly 10K per state seems generous.

    So if you start to hear enough stories of a particular defect, it gets worrying, because 4 or 5 isn't that many out of a million, but it's a lot more out of a hundred. And if runaway boards can be common, some bystander's gonna get hurt sooner or later, and then there'll be hell to pay.

    All of which is to say, I think what you are trying to do is valid, but there will always be some pretty important missing numbers in these equations - and Future Motion sure isn't going to provide them.

  • @Glyph I agree, we cannot know all the numbers, esp not how many are sold but I wanted to have a picture of roughly what % of ND seems unprovoked and that I have now. It makes me ride even more careful and alert which is a good thing

  • Was riding some steeper hills today and not really going too fast, maybe 10-11 mph. On one particularly steep section I felt the motor surge, and thanks to this thread, I backed off a bit and still had enough to finish climbing the hill slowly. Thanks, and keep up the stories, to help us allfrom your experiences.

  • Had a ND at about 3 mph yesterday, just jogged it off. I was crossing a street at a sidewalk and my wheel went into the area of the road that funnels water down the side, and it just happened that it was the exact dimensions as the wheel so it just sorta got stuck. 0_1547362207628_Screenshot_20190113-014946_Chrome.jpg

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