The dreaded Error 16 code

  • @HanahsDax -- Your streak of daily riding continues unbroken with your V1 -- the two streaks overlap as you head for 1000 consecutive days riding Onewheels, even through Colorado winters!

  • Thanks everyone for the support, suggestions, guidance and kind words. The community has been great and a big reason I’m so bummed is I feel I’m letting everyone down by not being able to continue to push the next rider. This community is inspiring in so many ways.

    I had two options yesterday, crawl in a bottle and let sadness and disappointment run my life or try my hardest to get my XR repaired while also still keeping the V1 streak alive. I was unsuccessful on the repair as I lack the brain power that was required to properly diagnose and repair but kept the V1 day streak going. The quest for a 1000 days in a row is now relied on continuing the V1 day streak over the next 97 days. I also still have 3 badges to collect to complete the entire achievement section of the app.

    *Life is only as good as the memories we make. And when this hourglass has filtered out its final grain of sand I’ll raise my glass to the memories we had.
    So long, Astoria-The Ataris/Kris Roe

  • @HanahsDax I think it's safe to say you've been an inspiration to us all and still will even without the streak. The streak is by far an impressive achievement, one to stay recognised for a long time however your presence in the community is something that will never disappear. Supportive, constructive and an all round gem of a character that I'm glad I can call a friend.

    The V1 streak will carry the torch for now. Who's to say you can't keep pushing the next riders on the board everyone least expects to outdo them ;)

    Keep us updated on your XR too, if you need to bounce any thoughts or findings off me I'm happy to continue assisting where possible.

  • @Lia Thanks for all your help and kindness. I wish international shipping costs weren’t so extreme or I would send the controller and spare battery pack to you to tinker with. I thought about sending it back to the mothership but they will probably just tell me I need a complete overhaul so it’s almost more cost effective to buy a new XR. I have a ton of spare parts I collected hoping I would be able to address any problem I encountered during the streak but I may put them up for sale and use the funds to help with new board cost. I think @blkwalnutgrwr wants a few.

  • @HanahsDax Agreed, international shipping bites :/

    If nobody more local could take a look maybe you could try just sending the controller and I'd use my battery for testing since everything else checked out. At least that way you get to keep the working brains and mileage if I get it working again.

  • @HanahsDax -- Yes, indeed, I could use a motor assembly and sensor footpad if those are parts you care to part with. The harness I only wanted to cut out all the little wires and use it as a direct EGO cable -- so if it is not damaged you are better off getting it to someone else who needs the whole thing. Email Paypal ready. Again though, sorry your board malfunctioned.
    Hmmm... On the other hand you could take my spare Plus controller and battery pack and turn your XR into a Plus if that is of any interest to you. (Edit: Actually my spare controller is 3206, not as desirable as 3208.)

  • @HanahsDax just curious, what hardware version is the record breaking board? 4207?

  • @stinkyface It was a 4206 ordered on 05/22/18 and was received 06/19/22. I remember checking the “Dude, where’s my board?” feature on the shipping info everyday. I ended up taking half a day off work the day it arrived and recorded my first ride which I titled Genesis and made up public on the ride section of the app. I used the board everyday expect for one which totaled to 1,038 days of use. Its ending mileage was at 6968 and I topped out at #49 for overall mileage the day it died.

    @Lia Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on that. My original idea was to make a tribute with the rails and PCBA sort of like the one you did for your Vega. To be honest I wanted to give the board a makeover several miles back but couldn’t cuz I loved the pic you created of me and wanted to keep it resembling the artwork piece.

    @blkwalnutgrwr I’ll post a pic of what I got. I actually have a plus controller I disassembled a while back and found a plus battery cell pack minus the casing, BMS and wiring harness so I could possibly create a plus with XR rails if the BMS in my original battery pack is able to accommodate a plus cell pack and is in decent working order. Thanks for the suggestion.

  • @HanahsDax A tribute would be cool, but I feel that board has so much more left to offer before it's retired. I bet we can get it working again :)
    The brain of it clearly works as it connects to the app and processes everything. All that's stopping it is the controller not seeing the thumbs up from the BMS. Might take a while but I'll reverse engineer a schematic from mine if I have to in order to find the loss in communication.

    Don't worry about changing the style, I'd be more than happy to do another once it's settled into it's new look. Will need some new vids for source material though so another reason to get you back on that XR ;)

  • @HanahsDax -- I concur with Lia, get your XR back in action!

    If you are building a Plus, I have a BMS/battery-pack/case/&harness you can have. I took it out of my Plus this spring and have been using EGO batteries exclusively to power my Plus (and my V1, too).

  • @blkwalnutgrwr you got first dibs on whatever part you want/need/desire.

  • @HanahsDax -- Nice collection. All I need is a motor -- the well used one would work fine or the hub with no tire (although that one looks brand new) -- and a sensor footpad, which I like looking beat-up since they get that way quick anyway, and yours looks new, although I would take it. Let's talk prices in email. I am excited, I have been looking for a suitable motor for almost a year now.

    Are you sure you want to disperse all those painstakingly collected Onewheel parts? My own collection of parts has not happened overnight, it has taken three years of watching, thinking, acting quickly, and gambling a little, too.

  • Hi All,

    The patient has made it's way to me and I've spent this morning taking a look.

    So far all checks out as we left off. Board powers on, everything measures normally but if you get it in a startup orientation error code 16 rears it's ugly head.

    Did some probing and found resistor R49 was dead. This resistor runs between the green and white wires from the BMS which I assume to be RX and TX by the colours. These are pins 14 and 6 on the big 16 pin connector leading into the controller from the battery. I've highlighted the traces for you on a pic from my board.
    The resistor connects both RX and TX just before entering U17 (I don't know why, maybe some pull-down solution). When measuring between the pins I get an open circuit so R49 has died open.

    R49 is an 121ohm resistor according to the silk screen and I confirmed by probing my controller's pins 14 and 6. 121ohm resistors are.... uncommon so I made a 122ohm resistor from a 100ohm and 22ohm resistor in series.

    Removed the dead one and wired in my resistor further back to give it more of a contact pad to solder to since these are larger and there are high voltage pins just next to it.

    Alas, still error 16. This leads me to believe U17 is faulty which could have caused R49 to die. Unfortunately I can barely read the silk screen on it. I can make out the ST logo meaning it's a SGS Thomson chip.

    I can just make out what appears to be 14 _ _ _ _ and below that either GX _ _ _ or 6K _ _ _. I'd take a pic but my phone refuses to get anything but a smudge.
    I've toned back what appears to be Gnd and Vin for U17 so it looks like it should be getting power although I have yet to verify what is present on those pins when active.

    Possible issues I've got it down to is

    • Debris on the board is causing interference, gonna give it a clean later.
    • My resistor replacement, albeit the right resistance may be inducing some other quirk that's ruining the signal.
    • U17 isn't getting the right power input from elsewhere in the board.
    • U17 is dead.
    • A broken component/trace between U17 and the main ARM chip
    • The ARM chip is faulty.

    I don't think it's the last once since the rest of it works so unless something dumped voltage on some sensitive pins I can't see why that would be the case. My concern is if U17 is a programmed chip or I just cannot locate what it is. If so I'll need a donor board. I assume I might be able to pick up a "dead" one from somewhere if need be unless anyone has one lingering around they'd be happy to sell me for transplanting U17.

    Edit: Looked back through my notes, the black pin being Gnd for the BMS's communication appears to come in on pin 5 but after a bit of tracing I actually cannot find where that pin comes back out.... maybe... just maybe.... that's the fault.

    You've seen how many vias are on this board... gonna be a while >.>

  • @Lia said in The dreaded Error 16 code:

    The patient has made it's way to me and I've spent this morning taking a look.


  • FOUND IT!!!!!
    U17 : ST1480AB. Got the datasheet toooooooo.

    Looks like the dead resistor was needed too. There's an implementation on another doc I found with a similar chip but paired with another to act as send/receive either side of the line. Note the 120ohm resisistors either end of the A/B lines.
    (changing the values shouldn't matter as long as they're the same either side which seems like why I haven't fixed it yet)
    I won't pretend I know more than some very basic stuff on these sheets, a lot of it is beyond me. I've gathered enough to verify the chip is being fed the right voltage though now and what pins are what.

    Better yet though, this chip isn't programmed, it's just logic gates so if it's shot I can just get another.

    Still haven't found where that ground pin has gone though, poked a few other tinkers to see if they know before I pop open Slushy to see where her's goes although I feel like this may be a red herring.

    In the meantime since there are 2 resistors, 1 either side I assume both have to match so I'm going to order an actual replacement SMD resistor. When stuff like this fails assuming they don't cascade then only one thing is bust. It may just be this resistor after all and I'm just big dumb!

    EDIT: Ordered the appropriate resistor, figured out what one I'll need to appropriately replace this. On the downside I'm waiting a week :(

  • @NotSure said in The dreaded Error 16 code:

    @Lia said in The dreaded Error 16 code:

    The patient has made it's way to me and I've spent this morning taking a look.


    from planet catwheel trying to phone home

  • Swapped the resistor, issue persists!
    alt text
    So that means the ST1480AB chip might be dead. Good thing it's replaceable.

    Having to order from China because Mouser, Digikey and Farnell are all out of stock for this chip with an expected wait time of November. Found one on eBay so ordered that. Gonna take a while since shipping seems to be economy.

    While I had the board out I gave it some more poking with the multimetre. Traced back the pins on the other side of the chip, they all lead back to the ARM chip (stm32f103VB) as suggested by the datasheet for the ST1480AB. The actual via's are under the chip so I spent a while probing everywhere coming up empty till I realised there were some under the chip I had to probe from behind.

    Here's what that all looks like.

    The other 4 (3 since 2 are connected) pins coming off the ST1480AB appear to go back to 3 I/O pins on the ARM chip. They'll be programmed in the firmware for reading the data. Assuming those are where the pins are meant to go then no break/short appears to be present.

    So with that all in mind it brings me back to ST1480AB is bad or... the Arm chip. Fingers crossed it's the ST1480AB otherwise some sort of hack will be needed to tell the ARM chip to ignore battery info if at all possible.

    I'd like to imagine it's ST1480AB that died and in turn caused the resistor to die, or the resistor died and caused ST1480AB to die... Either way it makes more sense that it's the problem. We'll have to see when this replacement comes in... a few weeks >.>


    Edit: So looks like even if the main ARM chip is dead some people have managed to extract the firmware from this type of chip already. If this one is dead there could be a chance that I could extract the existing firmware and write it to a new chip that isn't faulty.
    alt text
    Here's a video of someone doing it to the same family of chip.

    Edit again: Still waiting on this ST1480AB chip to arrive.
    Shipping from China is so slooooooooooooooooooow

  • Chip arrived early but I still get the same fault.
    Dunce Fox.png

    Silver lining to this is I haven't killed the board further or mine while using it as a donor for testing.

    Removed the old chip and compared it to the new one before soldering and found that pins 7 and 6 have a resistance between them on a fresh chip but not the old one.
    Ignore the slight variation in silk-screening, they're the same ST1480AB chip just made at different times and probably a different country.

    This implies the old chip has failed open much like the 121ohm resistor had. Whatever caused it isn't present anymore since the new chip and resistor haven't died, question is what still is? I really Really REALLY don't want it to be the ARM chip...
    Onewheel Error16.jpg

    Going to take a step back and think a bit more on this, pick a few peoples brains and for good measure beg FM's support to give me a hint.

    One thought came to mind, wondering if during development of the different hardware revisions they swapped the data pins from the battery. This is HW4206 and mine is HW4208 so if they did between those then they'd fail to communicate. Going to verify that first by asking around before just blindly swapping data pins.

  • @Lia -- Impressive work you are doing! Best of luck and good wishes on this!

  • @Lia, I really love your artwork! Great story telling. :)

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