Best posts made by Glyph

@DoubleDown said in XR - thrown from board after pushback:

rapid acceleration as much as motor could do

The motor needs to do TWO things - accelerate per your instruction, AND try to keep you upright. When you do "rapid acceleration as much as the motor can do", you've left nothing in the tank for it to help balance you with.

Gentle acceleration. Always. I know you think the OW "locked up" on you, and I don't want to say that's impossible (software or hardware failure is always possible), but IMO it's far more likely that you simply overwhelmed the board's ability to do both things at once that it needed to do, and forced your nose down to ground.

The instant that happens (without nose wheels like Fangs or similar), yes, the board stops immediately, and you get thrown. But not because the wheel locked up on you. If the board was still on afterwards (and you say it was) what I describe seems far more likely to me.

I know I'm not telling you what you want to hear. But I had what I think was a very similar accident at 250 miles. I messed up my shoulder bad and it's still not 100% healed over a year later. (I got back on the horse as soon as I could though).

I do agree that pushback is not very useful in this scenario (overacceleration). It's much more useful when you're already cruising and nearing max safe speed and you can use it as a cue to back off.

But the board is not magic - you outweigh it, by a LOT, and can easily overleverage it - and in an overacceleration scenario (even well below 15 MPH) you can push past pushback faster than pushback can push back (say THAT ten times fast). You'll never feel pushback, or even if you do you'll have no time to react.

Accelerate gently/smoothly, always. Bring your front foot back toward the wheel. Make sure you always keep your weight centered above the wheel, or even just behind it. Don't "lean" to go; instead press down the relevant leg and lift the other, while still keeping your weight centered above wheel.

The margins between "OK" and "Not-OK" are very, very thin on a one-wheeled board.

Heal up soon!

A closeup of the shoulder pad itself - might be able to make something better looking if you can sew, or want to color the armor piece black:

@c-han8484 I haven't seen the Glider in person, but I have Fangs on both my boards, and my buddy has them on his (and he's ridden out 3 nosedives on them). I can tell you that Fangs are sturdily-made, easy to install (judging from the Glider install video I watched, Glider install looks slightly more complicated, though not by a lot), and reasonably-priced in comparison to a serious nosedive injury. And there are a lot of those out there, broken shoulders (like mine) and clavicles.

They are also fairly unobtrusive. The only real downside to me is that they do cause a very slight loss in headlight brightness (they block it just a little on the sides), but I wear a headlamp and have additional external lights mounted to my OW for night riding so this small loss in native OW headlight brightness (which was never sufficient on its own for night riding anyway) is more than offset by the peace of mind Fangs give me.

One thing to note is that if you are primarily going to ride off-road, Fangs probably won't help you there, and could theoretically even catch on something unnecessarily (they do, very slightly, reduce the clearance under the deck - they have to, so they can contact pavement before the nose). So if you see yourself as primarily an off-roader, you may not want to bother with them. Also if you find your riding style is to dip your nose down real close to the ground when you turn, same thing - you may not want to lose the under-deck clearance.

Also, if you live somewhere with a lot of hills, you may want to consider that - while Fangs will likely help you with a nosedive going uphill too fast (in fact, this is one of the nosedive scenarios they are specifically aimed at), on a nosedive downhill it might (might!) be better for the board to immediately stop (and you too - ouch!) than to keep on rolling downhill. (Note: I personally think this is unlikely - when skiing/snowboarding downhill, and you find you've lost control, it's almost always better to hang on just a little longer if you can, because up slightly ahead there may be easier terrain where you can regain control, or at least execute a more controlled, safer fall. But it's a concern I have heard some OneWheelers who live in hilly cities express).

Also, note - these products are not nosedive "prevention". When the nose goes down, that's physics and mechanics and cannot be stopped by these wheels.

What these wheels do is reduce friction, so that the nose touching down does not immediately stop the board and throw the rider. This buys the rider a small window in which to recover and shift their weight back, bringing the nose back up again and keep riding (best case scenario) or at the very least, bail properly rather than being unceremoniously tossed down to pavement with their full body weight on their leading shoulder/arm.

They probably won't save you in a high-speed nosedive scenario (though some people report just that). But in one of the common lower-speed scenarios they may do the trick.

Common lower-speed nosedive scenarios:

1. Accelerated too quickly, and overwhelmed the board's ability to both thrust and balance you.
2. Went uphill too steeply/quickly.
3. Simply overweighted the front foot carelessly due to improper stance, or heavier rider, or wind, or low battery, with same result as #1.

@cascadewheeler I spoke to a girl (forgot to get her name) on the Support line yesterday, and she stated that A). + will not be upgradeable to XR's, the XR battery size is several mm thicker and will not fit in the + frame (I had hoped that those black plates on the bottom of the XR, meant that XR frame was the same size as the +, and those were just the new battery/power covers, but according to her they are just rail protection), and B.) that there were no plans that she was aware of to help out anyone who got the + recently but would have preferred to get the XR (I got my + August 9 2017, so exactly 5 months too soon - I would have paid the extra for more range.)

It'd be nice if FM offered prior OW customers a discount on newer models to encourage upgrades and smooth these kinds of ruffled feathers. Even something like $50 or $75 or $100 off, even if mostly symbolic, would feel like at least a customer loyalty acknowledgement.

@mrclowny - I am having some of the same reservations. Another solution might be if the Fins had some sort of bracket that attached them to the same screws that hold the fender to the frame (making the Fins independent of the fender entirely), it A. might be less likely to damage the fender, and B. would not even require the use of a fender at all.

The other thing is, such a bracket could maybe make the Fins somewhat adjustable - once I attach these Fins to the fender, I better never change my shoe style to ones with thicker or thinner soles/insoles, or the fit may be off. I could drill more holes to reattach/adjust them, but at some point you start to worry about making the FM fender more breakable than people say it already is.

I dunno. I backed these and will probably attach them when I get them, but I'm having a little bit of buyer's remorse now. Those zip ties make it seem like an idea that's ALMOST ready for prime-time, but not quite.

OK, I'm going to try a couple pics to show what I've got. Same materials as listed above, except that due to the size of the shoulder armor piece, I decided against epoxy glue, and just used strips of industrial velcro, which stick wonderfully to the neoprene. I really think the shoulder armor piece would stay in place just with the standard two velcro tabs on the pocket, but I didn't want to take any chances on it having shifted out of place unnoticed, just when you needed it most.

It's very comfortable, neoprene should breathe well enough for heat purposes, and I think it's low-profile enough to wear under the shirt - I just put it over, so y'all didn't have to see my manly chest hair.

@michaelw Preordered! Glad you guys took the zip-tie thing into consideration, that was probably a last minute pivot from you all but it def. looks a lot cleaner.

@hoovdini - Jesus Christ. They did delete mine. Despite the fact that not one post in it contains any links to any commercial product, it's all discussion about forum policy, and the OW itself.

Smooth move, Future Motion.

@rat8cheese Be very, very cautious about "leaning" to the front of the board, as depending on various factors (your weight, the terrain, your speed) you are inherently tempting fate into the dreaded nosedive. This is what the riding tips are trying to get across when they say "don't lean to change speed, use leg pressure instead while keeping yr body in place". Keeping your weight centered directly over the wheel at all times is working with the board's design to try to KEEP you there (that is, upright and level) at all times.

When you put too much weight on either side (with the front being more dangerous than the back), you are now making the board work against you to stay level. If you push it outside its capacities to both propel you and keep you upright, down goes the nose, the board stops IMMEDIATELY, you run it out (if lucky/reasonably-prepared) or get thrown to ground (if unlucky/unprepared).

I keep my knees slightly bent - I see videos of people with their knees VERY bent, but I only do this if I'm going under a low-hanging branch or something. But I also tend to ride mostly on pavement, it's possible for off-roaders their knees need to be more bent.

@reddog I guess I just see a lot of people pooh-poohing them and saying "just ride correctly and you will never nosedive". That's not realistic. That's like saying "just drive your car correctly and you will never crash", as an argument against seatbelts or airbags or something (or, I guess in our case, arguing against helmets).

It's a non-response to Fangs to say "just be careful and ride correctly" - of course we should be careful and ride correctly. Fangs are for those times when you screw up, and sooner or later, you will (hell, as good a product as I think the OW is, it's not realistic to think the board will never ever have a software or hardware failure causing a nosedive).

@michaelw I'm only a few years younger than you and I backed the Indiegogo not because I want these for tricks, but just to get up and down curbs. Looking forward to giving them a try and relieved to see that they don't seem to unduly catch your feet when you bail. Any idea when we might get them? I was in Group 2.

@mrclowny Agreed, I don't mean to be negative - the overall idea remains super-cool, which is why so many of us got excited about it. I just wonder if there's maybe a more elegant solution? Like maybe Flight Fins just needs to produce their own rock-solid fender, with the Fin system integrated to it, and you buy the whole thing. Or, like I said, maybe some kind of bracket that the Fin attaches directly to rather than to the fender (but the bracket could attach underneath the fender to the same frame screws.). The bracket would have to be strong though, aluminum or steel or something.

I got mine in the mail today, not sure when I will get a chance to attach.

Very frustrating. I have purchased multiple user-created OW accessories - including float plates, a handle, a stand, Flight Fins, and Fangs - and I found out about ALL those products here.

Not sure why all of a sudden they are cracking down, and SELECTIVELY at that.

@rrg123 it's not JUST range - the XR also squeezes in 10% more torque. That's valuable for getting over/up/through obstacles, and in some cases may give you enough oomph to avoid a nosedive when you would have had one (though it may also lead you to push the limits of the board, and nosedive).

Hey all, I ride mostly at night, and the onboard OW lights aren't quite enough. I have a headlamp, and I spent a lot of money on LumeCubes, but those've turned out to be fiddlier to maintain and mount than I'd like, especially at that price.

Tonight I hit on a solution which is so obvious and cheap and durable that I'm kicking myself for not seeing it before.

Get two of these from Amazon: $20 a pop, 800 lumens max brightness, 4 hour runtime at max brightness (more if on lower brightness), durable, water-resistant, bright as hell, rechargeable via a USB port that is accessible but covered when not in use:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0795P5VFQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Then, zip-tie them under your rails like so, where they are out of the way and protected by the rail and tire height, and Bob's yer uncle:

@DoubleDown said in XR - thrown from board after pushback:

I slid further face down on the asphalt than the board ghost rode after me.

That's because the instant your foot came off the front pad, the OW DID lock up (brake the wheel), because the board stops when you come off it. That's what it does to prevent it from rolling away downhill. That's its version of a "deadman switch".

I'm sorry, I know what you think you felt, but there's a YouTube video out there where a guy does some quick napkin calcs on how quickly the nose can drop down from level to pavement, and it is tiny - TINY - fractions of a second. A nosedive happens FAST. Faster than a human can easily perceive it if you're the one doing it, especially if afterwards you are hurtin' for certain.

You're going through exactly what I went through (boy oh boy do I identify with the "lulled into a false sense of being within known performance" bit.) I share your hope that FM will continue to improve these machines, because they are amazing. They feel like magic and that fools us into thinking they are. But they are still just complicated levers, subject to physics.

Think of two people arm-wrestling (you're one person, the board is the other) - you might strain against one another for seconds, even minutes, appearing to be evenly matched, but when the breaking point comes, when one side can't hold the other's "push" and leverage back any more, the end happens quickly and it's over.

You outweigh the board, by a lot. You "beat" it, by "attacking" it quickly and overwhelming its reserves of strength.

Unfortunately, the nature of THIS contest means that the pavement will always win in the end. Overacceleration can be thought of as fighting the board. Work with the board instead. It WANTS to keep you upright.

Definitely get the Fangs (I did). Like you, I suspect they would have bought me a little time to AT LEAST bail better, if not recover entirely. (My friend who has them on his board has actually ridden out three nosedives on them, staying onboard and bringing the nose back up to continue riding).

Again, I know this isn't what you want to hear, because it's not what I wanted to hear. But since I've learned to watch my acceleration (and this is harder than it seems to always remember - sometimes when you look down an intersection and see a car coming, the urge to scoot across quickly to beat it is very, very tempting. Don't give in to that temptation, unless you want to be lying in the street in front of that car), it - knock wood - has never happened again.